I have both and I can say that they have different objectives in the warthunder, the rafale much more Air to Air, even though it has fewer missiles and another for a complete multi role, it is simple, the balancing cannot be done thinking only in one mode or another. This isn’t to say that I’m in favor or not of increasing MICA’s capacity in the game, but as the game currently stands, there’s no point in talking about nerfs to Eurofighters because they make sense when you look at the overall gameplay.
Gaijin gameplay choices are questionable Rafale was already excellent and it has receieved consistent buffs. Which is fine however the Rafale is now incredible and it’s rivals are weaker.
The problem Rafale has is Gaijin will need to change somethings or even when the other “big hitters 4.5gen” are added the Su-35S and the F-15EX etc the Rafale will still absoulutely dominate them.
I have as said have no issues with Rafale and Typhoon being incredible.
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Their rivals are not weaker, they have different game objectives, as I said the rafale can only be really excellent air to air, but when you look at the ground things change a lot. At least as it stands in the game, I’d like to repeat. That’s the problem with these debates, because they only talk about missiles against missiles and air to air and forget about the rest.
I don’t see how su35 is supposed to perform better, and f15ex well is an f15 so it’s a different aircraft compared to a rafale/eurofighter.
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Well that’s a ground problem, I don’t think this is very relevant to the discussion since most of this discussion are talking about Air Battle meta.
But, regarding this, EFT already come in a super nerfed position, you know we don’t have ARH Brimstones for a reason. So the FM nerf wasn’t fully justified tbh, especially regarding the supercruise capabilities. If Rafale can have it, why does EFT can’t have it? If Rafale (simplified) supercruise capabilities was unrealistic, they shouldn’t implemented it from the first time and instead should fix the MICA, but here we are.
Su-35 will be no diffrent from the 30SM. The EX on one hand, it will be a slightly more manuverable F-15E with more power than the C. It would be the best all-rounder, in my opinion. 360 countermeasures. A lot of A/G ordnance. 12 A/A missiles. Potentially the best radar at topt tier?? You get the idea. The EFT can carry 18 MMW brimstones (but gaijin plays hard to get). My beloved F-15 can carry 28 JAGM-Fs. Pretty much a brimstone with i guess 20 km range or something
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Any change in the air to air, impact on the ground, and a lot in squadron battle and anyway the brimstones are laser guided , but they’re fast, smokeless and you can carry 12 without losing missiles , the rafale, carries 6 hammer which are slow and anyone can see them or gbus, do you want me to continue?
Well I couldn’t disagree with you more since I rarely play Ground RB, but I understand the contrast between EFT and Rafale in Ground and Air.
But again, I stand with both side in Air, EFT really underpowered compared to Rafale alone (that doesn’t mean EFT is the weakest 14.0).
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They are in terms of real world performance, Su-35S and F-15EX are very good but they are legacy designs.
Typhoon with it’s AESA Radar and Meteor would in many cases be superior to either airframe.
Rafale is at that level now all it is really missing is it’s incredible protection suite, Meteor and MICA IR or (NG)
I dont think it’s fair to nerf Rafale and Typhoon to allow Russian designs to catch up…But I do also understand that if the F-15 is not competitive Gaijin will want to add F-22 and Gen 5 airframes.
I dont want to go into the Brimstone and the numbers debate as they are used in a very different way and they force Typhoon to fly closer and lower to the threats and the ground.
A Rafale with ASSM is never at risk from a 2S38 a Typhoon is.
I’m not arguing that the rafale is better than the Eurofighter in air to air, but I just want to make you realise that this is necessary in view of the bigger picture, since any change can affect the overall gameplay, and it’s not as if the Eurofighter is useless against the rafale, it’s just play to counter the rafale.
35 Kinematically should be on a par with the Eurocanards and have have an excellent Radar but will it get R-77M or R-37Ms…
JAGM-F essentially operates like a Brimstone but has added IR guidance and with mmW not modelled the JAGM-F would be far better in game than the Brimstone 1-2
It’s a valid point, but one gives you a chance to dodge and the other is much more difficult, but yes, the Eurofighter’s gameplay is in some ways more risky than the RAFALE. But that’s also why one has more countermeasures and engine power.
The Su-30SM already has an excellent radar. Is the R-77M in service? R-37Ms are cool, i’ll give you that. They will probably me better AIM-54s but now the devs will acutally listen to the bug reports on it
It’s also the pilot work load, you are trying to guide a Brimstone to kill that Pantsir. While other CAS aircraft and even Strela and Ocelots are a threat to you. With the new SAMs and the ability to smash low flying targets Typhoon and Brimstone combo may need to go on the shelf.
However we have derailed long enough :)
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It’s true, but it’s important to talk about this because it’s also about performance.
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It has been tested thats enough for employment and US/NATO and Chinese mains will have superior missiles to Russia
So for “balance” R-77M will be needed vs PL-12/15 and 120D )maybe Meteors
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The CM is already nerfed to hell, and its MAW actually isn’t the best compared to Optical MAW.
Despite it’s stated as “5 KM”, Optical MAW actually can detect missile more than 5 KM, that really makes the differences with Rangefinder MAW that are only effective at 9 KM nothing more.
The only thing EFT edge over Rafale is, also citing your argument, IMO is its AtG Armament then, since FM wise and Avionics wise, Typhoon is inferior to Rafale. It didn’t have good Supercruise, BOL chaff is nerfed to hell, its radar pretty much just glorified Shar Radar, it has bad lift despite it should pretty much perform way closer to Rafale.
I know it’s just a game, but again, if we don’t push the issues, then it would become obsolute, I take F-16AM for example, its MAW should be able to carry missile, but since pretty much that aircraft popularity is dead, Gaijin wouldn’t bother to giving it.
Some extra: Large Calibre Chaff really overpowered compared to BOL, it produces the highest luminosity, the only downside is that it don’t have as much as BOL. For me at least, to kill a Rafale, you must spam a missile to force Rafale dumping all its chaff, and this is pretty common during the early days of Storm Warning, but Idk why people tend to less spam missile to Rafale, making Rafale going at 10 KM and then shoot everything up.
Have you thought about the fact that these ‘Nerfs’ could just be for now? For example, the BOL pods are not bad, you just have to use them properly, and 5km of warning for IR missiles is enough, what do you need more for? If the missiles that are in the air are older than me? The Eurofighters in the game are the latest versions, over time their qualities will be improved as needed, the same goes for the Rafale and other planes, remember that the F-16 C also started with little and today has aim-120, the game evolves, but that’s why I’m in favour of only releasing planes when you can give them their full weapons capacity.
Model numbers mean nothing if the features arent correctly modelled or implemented :(
Typhoon really just needs a few fixes or a newer version added with an AESA radar.