Don’t bother with the Mk3 and above. You’ll suffer.
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To re-iterate my beliefs here:
Just Baron and I share the same exact opinions on Merkava’s protection.
His views are my views.
I am skeptical that composite cannot protect against modest HE warheads.
Gaijin over-reacting to high-yield warheads being protected I find objectionable.
However, despite the major flaws of Merkava armor protection, I still find them better for me in CQC than Abrams and Leopard 2. But that could just be a playstyle difference.
Oh definitely. They’re hilariously good, even when using them in a 10.0 lineup.
What exactly do you think is the purpose of SLERA? It stops nothing in-game.
I don’t think on that subject; I rely on your research to be better than mine, and rely on your opinions on the matter.
Your time is appreciated and respected, and without it I feel it’d take me longer to find out things.
SLERA is an explosive composite block. It uses a self-limited explosion, varying depending on the threat level, to negate an explosion.
Let me remind you that only the roof armor of the Merkava was changed to have this protection modifier, yet it’s the same material as the sides of the tank. The sides were not changed.
This is an artificial nerf likely created due to the LMUR struggling with the Merkava.
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The issue, which I nor you can test, is that bombs were cited in the changelog.
Not LMURs, or even M107, but stuff with high warheads.
Could that be wrong? Maybe…
Could it be true that a Mk83 on a direct hit roof of Merkava Mk4 didn’t frag it before the change? Mayhaps… I suspect that they could be speaking on Mk82s, and thus Kh-38s, AGM-65Gs, and so forth, but it’s possible higher yield bombs weren’t working.
This is probably testable on Strv 122 or 2A7VHU cause one of those if not both of those weren’t updated.
It’s dumb to me that the difference between 9kg warhead and 100+kg warheads is seemingly hard to account for in War Thunder if the changelog is accurate.
Like it shouldn’t be hard to protect against M107 and LMUR while making sure whatever warhead size is supposed to punch through punches through…
But I don’t know how much their past coding has shot them in the foot there.
Edit: Here’s the quote…
So yeah, refer to my 9kg warhead vs 100kg warhead rant above.
Yes, I do know AGM-65G is 50kg TNTe warhead.
Haha, in the end we’ll ask for the option to remove all the composite armor from the Merkava, since it will hold up just as well, but with 20 tons less weight.
When it was leaked, I checked the HE protection before and after against M339 HE-TF. It is an overall HE nerf.
And sure, maybe it could mean bombs, but do bombs land on your roof regularly? The only HE weapon to perfectly top down in the game is the LMUR, and it was just added.
It’s too obvious at a glance. In fact, most bugs are too obvious about the Merkava.
Trophy hasn’t worked for a year? Arena gets added and not only works, but outperforms it massively.
The Merkava is supposedly biased to HEAT protection over kinetic? It’s just barely too thin to stop a Kornet.
The Merkava is too thin, Kinetically? It’s just barely weaker than 3BM42’s penetration on most spots.
There’s a much larger list at play, but, strangely, every shortcoming of the Merkava is tuned to be always vulnerable to Russian weapon systems despite proof of the opposite.
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It is a playstyle difference, i enjoy the Mk3s a lot. But they are not better than the aformentioned MBTs even in CQC.
They probably should be tbh due to their design doctrine and location of use etc, compared to more western MBTs designed for longer range engagements.
The 9.7 ones are great man, definitely had a blast with them and still use the M2B as my backup at 11.3 when i run out of Mk3s
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The Merkava tanks were designed at a time when long-range combat was expected and still occurred. For example, the Valley of Tears was one of the largest tank battles in history and happened along a massive valley.
Chinese documents also state the Merkava Mk.3 is frontally immune to 3BM42 in most places, which would make sense as the front is extremely sloped and 3BM42 was the most common APFSDS in the world, and still is.
Strangely, though, despite the Merkava Mk.3 reaching the autobounce angles on its UFP, it doesn’t actually autobounce APFSDS.
Very sure it can stop everything… last time I threw 2 KH-29T on top of it turret. the Merkava ated and 0 damage… Today the Merkava can be penetrate from anywhere like the Ariete.
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That’s because the overpressure pen of the KH-29 couldn’t outright penetrate the Merkava’s roof armor due to its thickness and lack of gaps. That is now completely the opposite. You’ll likely never have a Merkava stop a single thing you throw at it again.
This was previously the thickness against SAP-HE.
And this is now.
Im aware of that, however they’re one of the few tanks in the world also designed for very close quarters battles aka urban battles.
In comparison to say challanger, leopard and or abrams.
I did not actually know they had tested it, that is good to know, at no point btw am i debating it’s armour levels, they are beyond shambolic for tanks that A are some of the most protected in the world and B some of the hevaiest.
Thats both a mixture of the engine and poor luck, ive had my mk3s bounce shots from Dm53 and m829a2 then a 3BM22 will cut clean through
Remembered guys stuff like leclerc, challanger, ariete, Vt4 and ZTZs all have incorrect armour values
As per the leaks for CR2 we know it is roughly half in game compared to IRL.
Ariete war kit has been proven to be lacking KE protection.
Leclerc’s composites have been proven to be wrong as well.
The chinese MBTs well we all know of them.
The game IMO needs so care and attention on top tier tanks, purely to slow down the rate of gameplay even. Make it so shots havw to be properly aimed, make it so good positioning and plays are rewarded.
Right now stuff like abrams or leopards dominate due to the fantastic combination of reload, round , mobility and protection.
Imagine all the minor nations had tbeir armour, rather than getting copy paste damn leopards 😂
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AHA! I found my screenshot from May!
The only issue with this screenshot is I don’t know where the AGM-65G hit.
All it takes is for the armor to bounce a big enough explosion once and be witnessed by someone that brings it up to the research & dev team. It’s not saturation.
Thank you, Warrior. This is one of those instances that could’ve triggered this investigation, not you specifically of course.
Arena, Iron Fist [which blocks Kh-38s], AMAP-ADS [which was fixed at some point], and Drozd all work, not just Arena.
Trophy, which we only found out is connected to smoke grenades recently, is one of those bugs that’s likely to be a major update bug fix.
Either way, I expect Trophy to be functional either next major or the major after now that Gaijin knows it functions when smoke grenades are launched and it’s easier to find a bug’s cause when you can figure out if it functions under any circumstance than if it’s not functioning at all.
As for the composite issues I’m seeing… you have my support, sir.
Here are some tests. I can’t translate them, though.
I hate this. There should literally not be a single way for early APFSDS to go through that angle.
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Lol yeah , had a t55am1 fire througj the engine block the other day too 😂😪was a sad day to die to one in a merkava.
The reason is though those guys took a few seconds to aim opposed to the top tier lads just pointing and clicking
Iron Fist should be capable of detonating big projectiles mid-air, and to a slightly lesser extent, so should modern Trophy. The difference is still surviving the explosion above you.
I listed Arena specifically because Trophy broke before its addition. Trophy has been bugged for a year, while the Merkava 4’s armor has been accepted as bugged for 4 years.
It should also be noted that Drozd, for some reason, has a faster reaction speed and intercept rate than Trophy. Drozd may be fixed in place, but it’s still ancient in comparison. Computers and their radars were significantly slower and less reliable than those Trophy uses, so it makes no sense for it to beat Trophy that significantly, if at all.
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It got nerfed cuz LMUR couldnt one-shot it
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And it shouldnt cuz unlike other mbts it has armor on the roof
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Yes, which is something I discussed in the post you replied to.
Saying “okay” is also an acknowledgement of information, nothing more. It’s not opposition nor support, and I have a feeling some people forget what okay means in conversations about information.