A cool brief new update on the M-SHORAD, as it finally received a name!
Officially titled the “Seargent Stout” today, after the Vietnam War Medal of Honor Receiving Veteran Seargent Stout. He was, himself, an Army Air Defense Artilleryman, so it makes sense. Very exciting update.
If I’m correct, the Avenger Systems are also able to fire the newer Saber missiles. I believe it’s mentioned in one of the Brochures I have on the HMMWV Avenger platform vehicle. However, I’m not sure if the Saber launchers are able to be fitted in place of other Stinger pod systems, as their launch pods are almost the same size and dimensions as the 4 missile stinger pods.
This would be interesting… A complete game changer if so. I would be curious to see if I could find anything regarding this; albeit I’m sure 99% of it is either classified or export limited.
If I do find anything, I wonder if a suggestion could be scrapped together to add the Increment 1 with the SABER missiles instead of stingers to make it significantly more capable and more appealing as a top tier Anti Air vehicle.
As a system of modular systems the RIwP turret is cleared for the following payloads;
Something worth noting is that the turret is shared with the M1296 ICVD (Stryker Dragoon), and that both 30mm offerings have some form of AHEAD / HE-VT & APFSDS already available.
Though it is likely that the existing 30x113mm ammo of choice (XM1211, HE-P & XM1198 HEDP) will be replaced with XM1223 Multi-Mode Proximity Airburst (MMPA) in future.
And missiles;
Shame that if we would get the system I would wager if it was to get any hellfire or similar weapon it would exclusively be laser guided given gaijin’s near complete aversion to the 114L or other western MW seeker munitions.
Considering they have added SALH+IOG on missiles with HE warheads(Kh-38ML), there really isn’t a massive difference in actual game terms, considering how larger HEAT warheads underperform.
Also if they were that bad there is always the ability to generically add chaff to smoke to forcibly break locks (The same way Multipath has still a universal overstated impact on SARH guidance, at least one Defensive smoke formulation include chaff did exist) and could be given to all vehicles with smoke launchers or alternately limit their missile carriage capacity by limiting station / launcher availability as needed.
Though considering how quickly we seem to be speedrunning the F&F meta, longer ranged SAMs and assorted EW (DECM, ECM pods, (Towed) Decoy, Jammers, etc.) systems can’t be that far off, so I’m ready for the AH-64E with all of 4 AGM-114L (2x1 M229 rails)
And nothing comparable has been added to other nations as of late even on the new dev server.
Such has been brought up to gaijin countless times now, yet, sadly it has not changed their outlook on the subject.
As it stands I would like the 114L to have been put in the game a long time ago, but sadly gaijin does not carry the same wishes as I.
Still have no idea where the; AGM-65E, L-JDAM, AGM-154 or GBU-39A/A are. There are a few widely similar options though no direct counterpart (closest would probably be the AGM-84E /-K, but that isn’t laser guided). The other issue might just be the conspicuous lack of Su-25SM3 counterparts (A-10C)
You’ll see I requested the addition of the MMPA ammunition, since that is absolutely going to be the replacement very soon.
I didn’t know about the option for the turret; the reason of request for the Seargent Stout is because it is a real, active, photographed system that is in use by the Army. Gaijin likes firm proof; nothing is more firm then photographs and excessive briefs.
I’d agree, though I don’t think we’re going to see other distinct configurations until Increment III is finalized in 2024~'26, if anything. (the Next Generation Short Range Interceptor really can’t turn up soon enough considering considering the travesty that is the modeling of the Stinger, hopefully it uses TVC an isn’t a Rolling Airframe missile).
Since the tree is somewhat lacking solid options, providing additionally investigated payloads for the turret for soft balancing is somewhat valuable since at least one source exists.
Also with the Stryker MSL / M1097 Avenger could serve as the low performance option since it also has some overlap with the Missile module options / trials, though less well sourced, I don’t think it would be much an improvement over the existing LAV-AD until Stingers get a rework (add missing Contrast Lock on mechanic for POST seeker variants).
True, although that relies on one key factor.
This. Supposedly, trials are supposed to begin shortly; 2024 Quarter Three was the expected deadline for the first live fire tests. Unfortunately no knowledge is known on it other than it is supposed to be a much better stinger and fit in the same frame as the Stinger.
And have them, y’know, give it the G tolerance it is supposed to have. But “oH WE caNT BeCaUsE tHe RuSsIaN OnE CoUlDnT aNd tHeY aRe SiMiLaR”
I’ve got sources that could probably get it overturned, but due to the specific wording of the Devblog it would probably need to be a suggestion, not a bug report. Which has different requirements and is more easily ignored.
You can find an overview here.
Ah, I already read this. It was pretty decent, but because of the way Gaijin works. It’ll simply never get passed (it’ll be buried in the countless thousands of other stinger suggestions and reports).
Also shown during the event that they have opted to substitute the AGM-114L launcher module for another 4x Stingers
Thinking about this, if it was to come in this configuration, it frankly could be just 10.0 with the LAV-AD, heck, if its just this config it probably could be 9.7 given it would lack the funny LAU-68 the LAV-AD gets, having the M230 as the only anti armor option present and HEDP ain’t gonna really cut it.
Would have better situational awareness than the LAV-AD since it has a actual search radar, but if its not modular its pretty much the same thing but with less anti-armor performance weapons wise.
Still wish the LAV-AD would get it’s purposed search radar.
It’s just not good enough for top tier. The US tech tree needs something like the SLAMRAAM.
The AGM-114Ls are a MMW Radar seeker. They’d be practically undetectable by planes and Helis while having quite an extended range.
Pair this with the info regarding turret modulation as well as the NGSRI and/or SABER, and this absolutely would be a perfect new top tier vehicle. I get you, and others, want the SLAMRAAM- but quite frankly if this won’t cut it, that one won’t cut it either. At least this has more than the Mk. 1 eyeball and has a valid radar seeking warhead.
But even with the extended range, won’t the AGM-114Ls be extremely slow and have poor maneuverability (in Gaijin’s eyes)?
Relatively; but they are perfect for Heli slinging since they can loft and thanks to the MMW Seeker shouldn’t exactly be chaffed easily, or at the very least shouldn’t be picked up by RWR. The SABER/NGSRI would be better for aircraft.
It currently uses XM1211, High Explosive Programable (Is just probably M789 w/ programable fuse) & XM1198 HEDP-SD (M789 HEDP w/ Self Destruct set for 2000m)
~50mm of flat penetration @ 200RPM (25mm@ 60 degrees) doesn’t seem so bad (superior to PGU-20 past ~ 400 meters) So is a slight improvement over the GAU-12 against light armor at all ranges (since PGU-20 is APCR it doesn’t fragment, though with 6x (1800 RPM * 2/3 (occurrence in the belt)) the effective fire rate) since it will reliably pen IFVs and light armor at all distances and expanded angles.
Now that Gaijin have revised large caliber HEAT performance, the next thing to do would be look at separating HEAT-F / HEDP shells from HEAT hopefully into an entire overhaul of how the CE damage model works entirely, to move it away from the fact that the most important performance indicator above all else is explosive mass.
I just hope that Gaijin decides to do something at some point soon. Even if it was the MIM-46 or a captured Pantsir / Tor at this point.
