yeah, probably either folder or slightly higher br
also i found this on one of the reddit post
Spoiler
History
During the 70s, France needed a new MBT to replace the AMX-30, a tank considered obsolete due to the lack of adequate armor; the later developments of the AMX (AMX-32 and AMX-40) in the 70s and early 80s were not satisfactory. In collaboration with Germany since 1978, the EPC program (Engin Principal de Combat) was launched with a vehicle called “Napoleon-1” (in Germany, it was called Kampfpanzer-III or Kpz-III) for the design of a tank common to the two countries; The project, however, ended due to discrepancies but other standard programs were carried out including the adoption of new 120 mm ammunition.
The Land Armaments Directorate French continued in 1982-83 the project for a new national tank design but a first problem arose: the new tank would have been too expensive to develop for the French army, so a foreign partner was sought to reduce costs. Subsequently, the United Arab Emirates (UAE, in English) decided to join the project by ordering 388 vehicles and 46 ARVs.
In 1983 the project of the new MBT was started and in 1986 the first 6 prototypes were built that differed from each other for armaments, armor, aiming systems and propulsion system (the same year the name Leclerc was given to the tank). Five of the six prototypes were designated under different names (ARES, BAYARD, CARNOT, DUROC and ESTIENNE); the prototype ESTIENNE was used for armor testing and was therefore destroyed.
In 1986, the EPC program was renamed to “Leclerc” in honor of Philippe François Marie Leclerc de Hauteclocque, a famous Free French commander during the Second World War, who died in 1947.
The first real Leclerc prototype came along – the MSC (Mulet Systéme Complet, or Complete System Testbed). It was quite different from what would later become the production Leclerc MBT and, as its name suggests, served as a testing tool for multiple Leclerc technologies, especially the automatic loading mechanism that loaded the gun from a turret bustle ammunition rack.
The tank weighed 52.7 tons and had a crew of three. It was protected by composite armor, consisting of layers of steel and aluminum with the protection levels being roughly equal to the early German Leopard 2 series. Additionally, its frontal flanks were protected by segmented “skirts.” Some older sources claimed that these skirts were in fact ERA segments but it seems that the more likely version is, based on sources available, that these plates are in fact NERA segments. Further protection was provided by two banks of GALIX smoke grenade launchers.
The armament consisted mainly of 120mm L/52 smoothbore cannon called GIAT CN 120-26, fed by a Creusot-Loire autoloader, providing a steady rate of fire of 10 rounds per minute (can reach 12 rounds per minute for limited periods of time). The tank carried 40 rounds, 24 of which were located in the turret bustle, accessed by the automatic loading mechanism.
The gun was fully stabilized and was equipped with a muzzle reference system and a thermal shroud. Its maximum elevation was +15 degrees and its maximum depression was -8 degrees.The tank had several French-made ammunition types available, including:
- OFL 120 G1 APFSDS round with tungsten core, penetrating 550mm at 2000m at 60 degrees
- OECC 120 F1 HEAT multi-purpose round, penetrating approximately 450mm at 2000m at 60 degrees
- OE 120 F1 HE round
The electronics were cutting-edge for its time and included a laser rangefinder, panoramic sights and a thermal imager for the commander as well as an advanced digital FCS. Later prototypes would also be equipped with a precursor to a real Battlefield Management System.
The whole thing was powered by a UNIDIESEL V8X 1500 16.47 liter V8 supercharged diesel engine producing, as its name suggests, 1500hp. This engine was developed by a company called Wärtsilä and was essentially the same engine that the production Leclerc would use – the biggest difference was a different supercharger used on the prototype and, of course, a different designation. It was paired with a SOMA Minerva ESM 500 automatic transmission, allowing for a maximum speed of some 70 km/h (50 km/h off-road). The suspension was a conventional torsion bar one.
Implementation within War Thunder
The MSC Ares could be placed within the French tech tree as a potential squadron vehicle, similar to the M1A1 AIM or T80 U, etc. It could be a great way for new players wanting to get into France to get an essentially free vehicle, for those that already do have top-tier France, the MSC Ares would also add an extra vehicle to the somewhat lacking top-tier area of France.
This is why I’m proposing that it could be either 10.0 or 10.3, giving a lineup with something like the AMX-40 and Jaguar. It would be a very unique and excellent addition to France, one I hope will eventually see the light of day in the game.
Specifictations
Crew: 3 men
Mass in combat: series P-1: 54.5 Tonnes
Military Load Rating: 62
Rated power: 1,500 HP
Power / weight ratio:> 26.5 HP / T
Powertrain: Diesel Hyperbar Wärtsilä SACM V8X or Turbo diesel MTU 883 V12
Transmission: SESM ESM 500 automatic transmission, 5-speed front and 2-speed rear, or RENK HSWL 295 TM automatic transmission, 5-speed front and 3-speed rear
Maximum speed: On the road: 72 km / h - Off-road:> 55 km / h - In reverse: 38 km / h
Acceleration: 0 - 32 km / h in less than 6 s
Fuel capacity: 1,300 liters under shielding (1,700 with external fuel: releasable drums)
Refueling: 8 min.
Maximum driving distance: 550 km with external fuel
GAP: Integrated TURBOMECA Gas Turbine or External Diesel Engine
Length: (chassis without external drums): 6.88 m
Width: (with side protections): 3,71 m
Height: (roof turret): 2.53 m
Vertical Obstacle: Forward: 1.10 m - Reverse: 0.60 m
Ditch: 3 m
Fording: Without preparation: 1 m - With preparation: 1.90 m
Suspension: Oleopneumatic
Main Armament: 120 mm / 52 caliber NATO Standard Cannon, Smooth Core, Stabilized
Initial speed: 1,790 m / s (arrow shell)
Ammunition loading: Fully automatic system in insulated turret neck compartment
Scoring: Electric motorization
Ammunition: 40 ammunition of 120 mm (of which 22 ready to use) with bush and fuse primer - 950 ammunition of 12.7 mm
Observation: Stabilized 360 ° panoramic viewfinder 2 magnifications, laser range finder, day track and thermal camera, stabilized mask firer viewfinder, with thermal imaging camera, laser range finder, day track and video channel
Ballistic Protection: Versatile Modular Multipurpose Shield
Protection system: GALIX 2 x 9 launching pots (smoke, close defense and IR lure)
Air conditioning: Electric drive system in turret or hydraulic drive system housed in the chassis
Radio: 2 radio stations with frequency evasion
Command Support: SIT ICON or FINDERS® / LBMS
Navigation: Inertial navigation
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it mentioned
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Yeah so the weight and composite here is probably false.
There were visibly plans for an armored MSC somewhere in the development but the one that did test fires circa 1986 did not have them, and it’s unlikely it ever got them, since soon after the testing France decided to make the 6 armored prototype, Estienne, Ares and cie.
As for the armor of those tanks, since it’s basically what was tested during the Swedish trials, the in game implementation of the S1 is the armor we could expect from those prototypes. It’s also likely they fired OFL 120 F1 but that’s honestly debatable
what is the uhhh the sources that u gave?
Marc chassillan, where most of the sources for the Leclerc originate from. He worked on the development of the Leclerc, working at GIAT.
He did make so mistakes here and there, but he is one of the most trustable sources aside from hard numbers from manufacturers. Considered secondary for the game purpose (although he has been considered primary for a long time before the disagreement over the reload speed, where he always mention 6s, when it was found that mechanically it could go way lower)
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You might find things at the archives.
Here is a PDF of documents in the archive at Châtellerault:
https://www.servicehistorique.sga.defense.gouv.fr/sites/default/files/2020-02/SHDAA_REP_4H
page 49 there is a section on “Char future” that can be interresting since the date are from 83 to 86.
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na seems to be consistent for me
the leclerc msc has thermals while pt16 does not. Plus the round should be good and the transmission would be awful…
About the super etendard… I might be guilty for that… I have 1200 kills and a kd of 3 in ground rb and all of these were in the time period where it went from 10.3 to 10.7 and then to 11.0…
Still it does not belong there… It should be 10.7. Subsonic plane facing pantsir and now the advanced spaa.
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Wdym ?
no spall like on type 90 or things like that ?
It appears that basket has been added to Leclerc MSC.
Ah yes. Tbf that was to be expected. Since they decided to add the MSC, I was fully expecting a change to the Leclerc internals. Hopefully they’ll also deal with the front fuel tank being internal (currently) when the armor is thicker than that of say the T90 front full tank and yet is considered external when the Leclerc is internal
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It looks like that, but it’s still a WIP.
On the latest dev server, the MSC’s reload time was changed to 6 seconds.
Is this historically accurate?
Considering that it can’t even withstand something like the 3UBR8 fired from a 2A42 autocannon, I feel like this adjustment might be a bit too much.
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Why it bounces every time i shoot the Leclerc…
The MSC is said to be able to reload in 3s. At the very least it should have the same reload as the Leclerc, as there has never been talks of it being slower than Leclerc reload. As far as I can tell, it’s purely for balancing, which is very stupid
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What BR is it in dev server? Can’t open dev RN
10.7