The Kh-38MT may not actually exist

[kedrigern]

he doesnt have to prove anything tho? its on gaijin who have put the missile into the game that now have the burden on proof
They have to prove from what source were they able to say that Kh38MT has been available on the 3 planes and how do they know that the Kh38MT does infact exist beyond the mockup. And since gaijin themselves say they cant use classified information and data, the source should be publically available where there shouldnt be issues showing it to their community.
Its the exact same thing as when people make bug reports on missing equipment for ingame vehicles, they have to prove that the vehicle has had the weaponry

[MythicPi]

Nope, still nothing. If anything, there is more evidence its likely not an operational missile, between the archival analysis of the ROE website, and the look at the last known archived version of the KTRV catalogue entry both pointing towards it not having gone beyond the early mockup stage.

[Necronomica]

I think the best proof currently is showroom mockups containing some sort of seeker that may or may not be of the IR verity. We know the Kh-38 family exists and are functional missiles, but no concrete proof of one with a functional and tested IR-seeker integrated.

[JesusWasGunner]

Wow thats a great argument to add literally everything to the game.
Anyways, 100 trillion E series tanks and UFOs with nukes to the German techtree

[Anonymous4245]

@MythicPi

believing that that Kh-38MT does not actually exist.

@MythicPi

From what I can gather, the Kh-38MT was likely a proposal for a weapon that has not yet been built and requires further funding. I dont think it has even gotten beyond the drawing board and made it to the testing stage, since if it had, they would presumably present a modernized mockup of the missile or the manufacturer would at the very least have an actual picture of the thing instead of needing to use artist renditions of the supposed missile for brochures. Its even possible that all alternate homing heads for the Kh-38M family of missiles have been cancelled, and the class renamed to the Kh-38ML, since the Rosoboronexport website has deleted all info regarding alternate seekers for the missile (they used to offer the MTE for IR, MKE for satellite, and MAE for active radar homing options om the webpage, all 3 have been removed and all mentions of those guidance options purged).

@MythicPi

In my opinion, the Kh-38MT is almost definitly a paper weapon

@MythicPi

Though the missile body and warhead my exist, the seeker never has

@MythicPi

There has been no physical proof provided (that I can find atleast) beyond the outdated brochure that the missile actually exists and is functional.

It’s literally assertions. Look as much as I like this thing removed or nerf (I hate CAS that much)

@MythicPi

If someone has additional proof the Kh-38MT does or has in fact existed operationally, please do provide the proof of it in the comments!

I know you made this comment, but the onus is literally still your to make proving it does not exist, when the definite answer would honestly be “Nobody outside of the Russian MoD knows”

[Anonymous4245]

But there’s also no definitive proof that it wasn’t test fired. You guys said so yourself, you can’t prove a negative

[dotSHINI]

We dont need to prove that.
You need to prove it was for it to be eligable

[Anonymous4245]

Burden of proof lies on the accuser?

[dotSHINI]

Not in this case, cause its existence cant even be proven by you

[Necronomica]

Which is exactly why non-existence is the default. So lacking proof of existence defaults to non-existence of practically anything ever.

[Necronomica]

Yes, when proving existence, not the other way around as that quite literally isn’t possible.

[Ghost_of_TelAviv]

@Anonymous4245

It’s literally assertions. Look as much as I like this thing removed or nerf (I hate CAS that much)

MythicPi:

And thats exactly the problem with a lot of people in here. They just hate CAS or Russia or whatever, thats why a lot of opinions here are not rational.

And the poll would probably be the exact same even if there was hard proof of the MT.

[Hudler]

@Godvana

There is no proof that a Bf 109 couldn’t carry an IRIS-T missile, ergo, the Bf 109 should get IRIS-T.

Good logic.

Nice strawman

[MythicPi]

You can choose to interpret the thread however you like. Ive already made it clear that the goal of the thread was to find proof of the missiles existence, not trying to prove that it does not exist. If you refuse to understand that very basic fact, thats on you.

Also, as Necronomica has mentionned many many times already, it is functionally impossible to prove non-existence. The default ste of being is non-existence, with proof of existence being what changes that.

What would you have prefered I name the thread? “Evidence the Kh-38MT does actually exist”? I dont have any solid evidence it does, so that would just be a misleading title.

[Anonymous4245]

@Necronomica

Which is exactly why non-existence is the default. So lacking proof of existence defaults to non-existence of practically anything ever.

I get that, but still absence of evidence is definitely not evidence of absence

@Necronomica

Yes, when proving existence, not the other way around as that quite literally isn’t possible.

I literally posted instances where assertions where made it does not exist, do they have evidence it does not exist?

I’m gonna quote myself

@Anonymous4245

“Nobody outside of the Russian MoD knows”

Look I have no evidence that the seekers are French, but France did provide a lot of Thermal technology to the Russians, so I still assert that if Hammer gets nerfed, the Kh-38MT should get the same nerf if it does not get removed

[dotSHINI]

@Ghost of TelAviv

And the poll would probably be the exact same even if there was hard proof of the MT.

And that is just declarations by you.

If it it is proven to exist i personaly would have no problem with it. This is the case with many here.

In the first place the thread wouldnt exist in that case in the first place.
That has nothing to do with russia. The F-16AJ got just as much flak

[dotSHINI]

Its what u are doing all the time

[MythicPi]

@Anonymous4245

absence of evidence is definitely not evidence of absence

That is why we’d like to see what evidence gaijin has that the missile is real, since nobody in nearly 3000 comments here have been able to provide anything that was not already discussed in the original post.

Is this really that hard to understand?

[JesusWasGunner]

Using your own logic to show you how dumb it is and thats the best you can come up?

[Anonymous4245]

But Gaijin won’t respond, because it’s literally a zero sum game for them. That’s the unfortunate truth