Copy paste pl12
Currently its just a PL-12 with more battery life and no launch limits
no launch limit might be good considering the extreme maneuverability but should it get more range?
Should yes, and it technically does with the longer battery life.
It has a visibly larger engine compartment than the old PL-12 but in gaijins eyes more range = more battery life
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Pl12 A/AE is the same they both uses the motor of the pl15 or a earlier variant of ttlat motor, in range pl 15 and pl12A should be close to eachother
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how can they be the same if pl15 is dual pulse? is pl12a dual pulse too irl?
Thats what i wanted to edit, the only difference is the double pulse engine, i just got thrown out of the forum, but the rocket fuel mixture is pretty much the same as the pl15
Can we stop talking about this like its confirmed information…
Its “BELIVED” to be the same rocket engine as the PL-15E but without dual pulse its not confirmed or even mentioned anywhere…
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In fact, the clear aim of Gaijin is to target the subsequent models of the Chinese Air Force, such as the J16 and J20, which are equipped with the WS-10B engine.If Gaijin still keeps the data of the Taihang unchanged, then the future strength of the Chinese Air Force is already doomed.
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Agree
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I agree with you. Bvvd plays a trick, what he had done toWS-10B actually hurts Chinese players. WS-10B engine should be improved IMMEDIATELY!!!
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I have also noticed areas that require improvement regarding the thrust envelope of the WS‑10B engine:
Based on the latest data from Test Server .21 on March 3 and the flight envelope of the WS‑10B engine, the ram thrust coefficient of the engine is lower than that of the WS‑10A at all altitude ranges, resulting in a significant difference in the growth rate of the thrust curve compared with the WS‑10A.I sincerely hope the game developers will check the relevant coefficients and adjust the thrust curve appropriately.Currently, in top‑tier fighter matches, the J‑15T ranks last in acceleration performance at high altitude and high speed, and I hope this issue can be taken seriously.
This problem is specifically demonstrated at an altitude of 7,000 meters:
At 0 km/h:Dual WS‑10B thrust: 11,750 kgfDual WS‑10A thrust: 10,447 kgfDifference: 1,303 kgf
At 400 km/h:Dual WS‑10B thrust: 11,915 kgfDual WS‑10A thrust: 10,968 kgfDifference: 947 kgf
The dual WS‑10B gains 165 kgf of thrust from the ram effect at this speed range, while the dual WS‑10A gains 521 kgf from the ram effect.Despite having higher static thrust and being more technologically advanced, the WS‑10B even exhibits lower ram efficiency than its predecessor, the WS‑10A.
This may seem insignificant, but the gap will be further widened at higher speeds, even in the supersonic range, resulting in only a small improvement of the WS‑10B over the WS‑10A at high altitude and high speed.This issue is equally evident at other altitudes and speeds, resulting in low actual usable thrust from the WS‑10B.
According to the developers’ usual practice, thrust curves are usually created by scaling up the previous model proportionally based on the static thrust values shown in the in‑game interface.In other words, the thrust curve coefficients of the WS‑10B should be consistent with those of the existing WS‑10A in the game at all altitudes and speeds.However, in the latest test server, the coefficient of the WS‑10B is significantly lower than that of the WS‑10A, leading to insufficient thrust at high altitude and high speed.Currently, the climb and acceleration characteristics of the J‑15T in these altitude and speed ranges are far below the average level of top‑tier aircraft.
I sincerely hope the game developers will attach importance to this issue.
At 7,000 meters, it is clear from the curve that the gap between the two is narrowest at 400 km/h. This lower ram ratio will carry over to higher speeds, making the actual performance improvement of the WS‑10B disproportionate to its static thrust increase.This problem is equally obvious at other altitudes and speeds.
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As for me,I have got all China tech tree aircraft in my account.To get this,i brought J7D and researched all this stuffs by my hand.
Now I will just wait, if the J-15T would be fixed the bug of the WS10B,achieved"real realistic"like gaijin promised,i would be happy to buy Su30mkk pack for researching it and make sliver lion.
But if gaijin decided to ignore the call of all players who cared about the J-15T and add more debuff,in my opinion,life still has many other ways to relax.
I suggest all players who share same attitude with me,make your own decision.
Ah, Gaijin, don’t tell me that Gaijin employees just randomly pulled the number 1795 kg out of thin air, and it just so happens to be exactly the same as the data from Jane’s.
Also, please don’t selectively report only the in-flight thrust-to-weight ratio of the WS-10B. Could you tell me what the ground thrust-to-weight ratio and in-flight thrust-to-weight ratio are for the AL-31FN3, AL-41F, and WS-10A? In the game, the weight of the AL-31/41 series engines is all around the 1500 kg mark, yet only the WS-10B weighs nearly 1800 kg. The improved AL-41F has almost the same weight as the AL-31 series, but the improved WS-10B has a drastically different weight from the WS-10A?
I certainly don’t mind Gaijin making reasonable estimates—what if the actual thrust-to-weight ratio of the WS-10B isn’t as high as Jane’s claims? But what’s with 1795 kg? Two engines add up to nearly 600 kg of extra weight! If we subtract those 600 kg from the in-game J-15T, its weight would be 17.7 tons, which is extremely close to real-world data.
Even if we set that aside—if Gaijin’s calculations aren’t that logical, why not just give it an average thrust-to-weight ratio? Setting it to around 8.1, similar to the AL-31FN3, would also make the WS-10B much lighter—1667 kg. What’s the meaning of 7.5?
Putting all these factors together with Gaijin’s selective use of sources, I can only reach a conclusion I really hate to say: Gaijin is deliberately nerfing the J-15T so that it won’t outperform the Su-30SM2. No, I’m not even asking for it to be “stronger”—I just want it to be “comparable”. Yet on the current test server, the J-15T is outclassed in every aspect by the Su-30SM2, with the only advantage being an extra MAWS. Is that worth a BR of 14.7? Right now, the J-15T is just a J-11B with two more PL-12s (the PL-12A has seen no performance changes to its propulsion besides adding GNSS), the J-10C’s radar, and half the countermeasure flares! A 13.7 BR plane with these minor tweaks bumped up to 14.7? I honestly don’t know whether to call Gaijin incompetent or intentionally malicious.
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Oh i know，The AL-41F can reach its current performance curve because it is a Russian engine.As many Chinese players know, the performance of the WS‑10B should be on par with that of the AL‑41F, or even exceed it. but now, the WS‑10B cannot be upgraded to the level of the AL‑41F like the AL‑31FN3 to achieve performance exceeding that of Russian engines, just as Gaijin seems to favor Russian vehicles.It’s almost as if Gaijin is racially biased and refuses to acknowledge that China possesses such a powerful engine.Before this, there had already been numerous problems with Chinese vehicles, making it hard not to think of this aspect.
If this is really what I suspect, I don’t mind telling other Chinese players about it. Of course, if Gaijin is willing to fix the bugs of the WS‑10B, I am also willing to buy the Su‑30MKK pack to play the game, and I will suggest other Chinese players to play War Thunder as well.
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In fact, the clear aim of Gaijin is to target the subsequent models of the Chinese Air Force, such as the J16 and J20, which are equipped with the WS-10B engine. Has anyone seen the third-generation engine with a thrust-to-weight ratio of 7.5? If Gaijin still keeps the data of the Taihang unchanged, then the future strength of the Chinese Air Force is already doomed.
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The attitude of Gaijin towards Chinese vehicles and airforce is just extremely bad
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Did the J-15T really end up like this? The radar and RWR are just copy-pasted from the J-10C. Where are the 96 small countermeasure flares that Gaijin mentioned in the stream?
Dear Developers,
I sincerely hope you can see this comment.
Regarding the thrust curve and weight issues of the WS-10B, I have two suggestions. First, to clarify: the WS-10B is an improved version based on the WS-10A. In the game, the WS-10A weighs 1520 kg, while the WS-10B is set at 1795 kg. Under the same engine calculation standard, the thrust improvement shown in the game would make such a WS-10B design a failure in reality. The PLAAF would never accept or procure it, and the responsible personnel could even be held accountable.
Suggestion 1:If you believe the data source you use follows the unified weight standard applied to most engines in the game, i.e., keeping the WS-10B at 1795 kg, then we can reasonably infer that the WS-10B uses the CM56 core engine, which shares the same origin as the F110. With an increase of about 200 kg, Chinese engine designers must have added extra compressor stages and other structures to improve intake pressure and ram effect at high altitude and high speed. Otherwise, the PLAAF would not adopt it.Therefore, the WS-10B in the game should be given a high ram coefficient similar to the F110-GE-129 engine used in the F-16C Block 50, which is in the same weight class and uses the same core engine.
Suggestion 2:If you believe the thrust curve coefficient of the WS-10B should be the same as or only slightly better than the WS-10A, then under this premise, the improvement of the WS-10B should not result in excessive weight gain. Its weight should be close to the 1520 kg of the WS-10A.
A reasonable explanation is that there are different standards for engine weight measurement. Whether various components and accessories are included in the weight can lead to significant differences in data from different sources.
At the same time, it should be made clear that the thrust and ram envelope coefficient in the game is even worse than that of the WS‑10A, which is obviously illogical and unacceptable to players.
We hope you will take the sincere suggestions from players seriously.We would prefer the J‑15T to be added to the game with reasonable and realistic performance to attract more players to enjoy War Thunder together,rather than being introduced as an unfinished vehicle that leaves players completely uninterested.
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Its still not finished before it hits live.
And they didn’t say directly it will get more CM’s they said they’re investigating the possibility of doing it