The F-5C is no longer good

[Stockholm_Blend]

@Pangolin_Fan

A-7 is the best 10.3 CAS option for America.

I think I mentioned ‘ARB’.

@Pangolin_Fan

If the only way to make F-5 look good is by comparing it to Warthunder’s worst jet dogfighters, then maybe the F-5 just isn’t good.

Man, you are the one who brought A-7 up to compare with F-5…

Again, F-5C might not be #1 in current ARB meta.
But it doesn’t mean that it is disqualified junk.

The majority of 10.7BR jets generally have worse flight characteristics.

@Pangolin_Fan

Nope, you’re just bad at using the Harrier. It really is as simple as that.

Bait.

According to last month’s stats.
SHAR FRS.1 early (Harrier with 2x AIM-9L on 10.7) scored 0.54 kill per spawn while F-5C kept 0.76.

Ofc, Harriers in 9.7BR have 0.59-0.67 kills per spawn.

I didn’t brought thailand F-5A this time because felt lazy this time.

After this, I am going to ignore this cope.

I think I explained quite much about this, and you are the one who shut your ears off.

[Stockholm_Blend]

@Morvran

(namely british ones) are underperforming

It would be great if we could get real SHAR FM.

Then we will storm the lobby just like back in 1982. Innit?

[Morvran]

Yeah… though at the moment, Id just settle for a heat signature that is colder than the sun’s corona and EEGS

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Morvran

Why?

Why would the F-5 being nerfed down to IRL performance result in other aircraft being nerfed down below their IRL performance?

The F-5 is one of many planes that overperform.

@Morvran

As it stands, the F-5s should probably be a higher BR than they currently are

I disagree. Even in full downtier, it’s not especially good

@Stockholm_Blend

I think I mentioned ‘ARB’.

And you needa play ARB to grind A2G weapons for it.

@Stockholm_Blend

Man, you are the one who brought A-7 up to compare with F-5…

Because it’s one of the only planes that loses in a dogfight

@Stockholm_Blend

Again, F-5C might not be #1 in current ARB meta.
But it doesn’t mean that it is disqualified junk.

I’m not saying it’s junk, I’m saying it’s not good, and certainly not deserving of the “OP” title.

@Stockholm_Blend

The majority of 10.7BR jets generally have worse flight characteristics.

Not really. Most 10.0-11.0s can either outrun or outturn the F-5, and many can do both. All the F-5 does well is energy retention.

@Stockholm_Blend

According to last month’s stats.
SHAR FRS.1 early (Harrier with 2x AIM-9L on 10.7) scored 0.54 kill per spawn while F-5C kept 0.76.

So Overall performance determines 1v1 performance . . . either bait or you’re just coping extremely hard.

[Stockholm_Blend]

@Pangolin_Fan

The F-5 is one of many planes that overperform.

It doesn’t guarantee indulgence to F-5’s overperforming FM.

I would rather choose to nerf them all to historical level while F-5 takes the key role of opening the curtain.

@Pangolin_Fan

I disagree. Even in full downtier, it’s not especially good

WDYM, in full downtier, you will face only 4 jets, which share the same BR as the enemy
while you will be facing tons of other jets, which are lower in BR.

If someone brought an F-5C in a full downtier match, and he lost some random 9.7BR jet
(Harrier GR.1/3, AV-8S, T-2 or Jaguar GR.1 as examples)
It is no more than his skill issue.
Imagine F-86A-5 got punished by F3D or F-100D got punished by F-84F.

@Pangolin_Fan

And you needa play ARB to grind A2G weapons for it.

Sounds fair, but you need to keep in mind that we are mainly discussing F-5 and other jets in a2a capability.

In terms of A2A and the current meta of ARB, my point still stands.
There is no meaning to play A-7 in its current status, and in the current meta of ARB.

@Pangolin_Fan

Because it’s one of the only planes that loses in a dogfight

At this moment, I really want to know who flew that F-5 which got killed by your A-7… :/

I saw plenty of F-5, which literally wipes nearly half of the team, while the other half is just carrying bombs and crashing while taking off.

Skill level of F-5C players varies just as other premium jets usually do.

@Pangolin_Fan

I’m not saying it’s junk, I’m saying it’s not good, and certainly not deserving of the “OP” title.

@Pangolin_Fan

Not really. Most 10.0-11.0s can either outrun or outturn the F-5, and many can do both. All the F-5 does well is energy retention.

Again, I disagree about this point.
Even though the F-5C isn’t the best 10.7BR jet nowadays, there are only a few jets which perform better than the F-5C (and its variant in 10.7).

It might not be the best, but still, it comes faster when counting from the front than from the rear.
Of course, it still is too good enough to not being called as junk or ‘not good’

@Pangolin_Fan

So Overall performance determines 1v1 performance

FYI, stat which I brought up only counts air kill.

So Kill per spawn might not directly imply the 1v1 performance, but if 1v1 performance is ‘that doomed’ as you claimed

F-5C’s kill per spawn rate will be doomed just as Bucc S.2B does.

Erm… I hope you don’t claim that even Bucc S.2B beats F-5C in dogfighting.

BTW, Don’t forget that SHAR FRS.1 shares attacker role with Bucc S.2B while carries none of the guided a2g munitions.

[Ion_492]

@Pangolin_Fan

I wouldnt mind historical flight model nerfs, starting with the Mig-21 and 23

Do you have any sources for the Mig-21 overperforming.

@Pangolin_Fan

The F-5 might actually become a good plane as it would be buffed relative to other 10.3-11.0 planes.

It is already massively overbuffed relative to everything else, which is why it has Aim-9Es at 10.7. It’s FM is just that good.

@Pangolin_Fan

AV-8S, and Harrier Gr.3 will easily get an F-5

No, the F-5 is considerably better than the harriers. I’ve played both the Av-8A, SHar FRS.1, Thai F-5E, and the ROC F-5A and I can confidently say that the F-5A is a much better platform than the harriers by quite a bit. It has infinite energy retention when pulling very hard, and it handles so much better than almost anything else at it’s BR.

@Pangolin_Fan

Full downtier in F-5 just isn’t the same as full downtier in F-100 or F-86A-5

I fully agree, but not because it’s not as good, but because 10.X is less compressed.

@Pangolin_Fan

If we exclude ground attackers/base bombers, F-5 is one of the worst 10.7/11.0s.

That is not true.

[Stockholm_Blend]

@Pangolin_Fan

That’s more so because there’s an oddly high number or planes at 10.0-11.0 that are only good for base bombing or for GRB.

If we exclude ground attackers/base bombers, F-5 is one of the worst 10.7/11.0s.

Strange…
Remember that you were the one who originally talked,

@Pangolin_Fan

If you somehow struggle against the F-5 of all planes, then that is legitimately a massive skill issue.

This.

Now you are trying to exclude base bombers or ground attackers from the argument at all…?

I think if I claimed that I lost to F-5 in Su-17M2 or F-111A yesterday, I would be called ‘skill issue’ from ya. :/

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Stockholm_Blend

I think if I claimed that I lost to F-5 in Su-17M2 or F-111A yesterday, I would be called ‘skill issue’ from ya. :/

Yes, because if you somehow managed to die to an F-5 in an F-111, when a fully laden F-111 is literally faster than an F-5, then that is massive skill issue.

As I said before, almost every plane can either outrun or outturn the F-5, and most can do both. The reason I excluded attackers is because no1 plays em.

I personally can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a buccaneer in battle, so using a bunch of planes that no1 plays to say the F-5 is better than most planes is simply a bad faith argument.

[Stockholm_Blend]

@Pangolin_Fan

The reason I excluded attackers is because no1 plays em.

You serious?

‘Noone plays Attacker’
(A-5C scored #4 in playcount last month while F-111A follows in #5.)

@Pangolin_Fan

Yes, because if you somehow managed to die to an F-5 in an F-111, when a fully laden F-111 is literally faster than an F-5, then that is massive skill issue.

You never heard that a fully loaded F-111A can’t fold its wings at all, and is forced to remain subsonic. Right?

OF COURSE YOU ARE, because you never flew with Aardvark

If F-5 can’t catch Vark in full load, maybe because you are blind enough to lose your sight from Vark.

@Pangolin_Fan

I personally can’t remember the last time I’ve seen a buccaneer in battle

Because it is a side grade of SHAR FRS.1, which turns slightly better but has no gun and wings ripped off by overload in B-17 level.

Even SHARs are worthless to play thanks to F-5C, why would I play Buccs again in ARB after I spaded all three of them?

In the current meta of ARB, where only a2a matters, there is no meaning in playing Buccs unless you want to donate yourself to enemies.
Quite a sad story because she was one of the iconic jets of the FAA.

---

Honestly, atm, I believe that you are sitting here just to make me rage. :/
You talk big, but you just don’t show any kind of proof of it to support your claim.
At least I brought statshark stats for it.

No one plays attacker? pffff.
Man, that ragebait was a total gem.
Mudmover enthusiasts are also playing this game, and I was concentrating on spading both F-111C and A-7D/E before the naval event starts.

I would rather believe ‘that Tiger guy’ over you after this moment.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Stockholm_Blend

‘Noone plays Attacker’
(A-5C scored #4

I guess I should’ve specific the slow attackers that cant defend themselves, or y’know, the planes we were talking about, Buccaneer and A-7.

It seems that you’re too slow to realize that.

@Stockholm_Blend

You never heard that a

loaded F-111A can’t fold its wings at all, and is forced to remain subsonic. Right?

Riiiiiiiight

@Stockholm_Blend

Because it is a side grade of SHAR FRS.1, which turns slightly better but has no gun and wings ripped off by overload in B-17 level.

Cool, so we agree that F-5 killing a buccaneer doesn’t make F-5 good.

@Stockholm_Blend

At least I brought statshark stats for it.

Which is why no1 cares abt your opinions XD

@Stockholm_Blend

I would rather believe ‘that Tiger guy’ over you after this moment.

Well hey, if you prefer to continue dying completely avoidable deaths to F-5s, over swallowing your ego and learning how to actually counter em, then have at it.

[BeautifulTai_wan]

@Pangolin_Fan

Riiiiiiiight

That’s a stock loadout in test flight. Which doesn’t allow you to fully load the aircraft. If you had played the F-111A, you might actually know that.

[Pangolin_Fan]

Still, Stockholm claimed you can’t sweep its wings with a load out and have to stay subsonic, which was clearly a lie

[Stockholm_Blend]

@Pangolin_Fan

I guess I should’ve specific the slow attackers

A-10A Late was scored #3 in playcounts in June while only J-7D and F-5C had higher.

So my stance about ‘nobody plays attacker is a blatant lie’ still stands.

@Pangolin_Fan

Riiiiiiiight

Maximum payload of 500lbs for Vark is 26, not 12.
(24 on wing, 2 in tiny bomb bay)
The lowest maximum speed limit of F-111A is 808kph(IAS)
And when I was spading F-111A, if I equipped any kind of payload on the outer pylon of the wing, then it permanently blocked the sweeping feature in match, which led Vark into a fatal catastrophe.

@Pangolin_Fan

Cool, so we agree that F-5 killing a buccaneer doesn’t make F-5 good.

Great, F-5 kills buccs, and bucc has similar dull FM as Harriers does, then you will finally admit that F-5 will maintain the upper hand over Harriers.

@Pangolin_Fan

Which is why no1 cares abt your opinions XD

I think it is better than claiming with zero proof.

You claimed that every F-5 is bad
But in fact

Two F-5 still maintained their throne above both J-7D and F-8U(which you claimed that better than F-5)

(FYI, now StatSharks are finally showing data from July. June data was the freshest one when I showed it first.)

Well… in play count, our problematic F-5C barely maintained #2, but its play count has shrunk to 3/4 compared to June. Maybe good for you bc it could be indirect proof that F-5C isn’t meta and harder to play than J-7D.

@Pangolin_Fan

Still, Stockholm claimed you can’t sweep its wings with a load out and have to stay subsonic,

We were talking about that F-5C and
You are the one who claimed that a fully loaded vark is faster than an F-5. Innit?

In the fully loaded loadout which you claimed, Vark is crystal clearly slower than F-5.

And look up.

@Stockholm_Blend

You never heard that a fully loaded F-111A can’t fold its wings at all, and is forced to remain subsonic.

My point still stands. Thanks to you who have never flown F-111A.

Sorry, but did you go delusional while reading that part?

@Pangolin_Fan

which was clearly a lie

Then, Can I get apologise about this part? :/

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Stockholm_Blend

A-10A Late was scored #3 in playcounts in June while only J-7D and F-5C had higher.

So my stance about ‘nobody plays attacker is a blatant lie’ still stands.

Lmao you’re grasping at straws harder than a sea turtle.

I do believe I specified the defenseless attackers, and A-10A and Su-25 are certainly anything but defenseless.

@Pangolin_Fan

that cant defend themselves

@Stockholm_Blend

And when I was spading F-111A, if I equipped any kind of payload on the outer pylon of the wing, then it permanently blocked the sweeping feature in match, which led Vark into a fatal catastrophe.

Sounds like an extremely simply problem, sadly it’s still not simply enough for you.

@Stockholm_Blend

My point still stands. Thanks to you who have never flown F-111A.

Your own arguments defeated themselves XD.

[Stockholm_Blend]

@Pangolin_Fan

I do believe I specified the defenseless attackers

Nearly an hour ago?

While you claimed

@Pangolin_Fan

The A-7 is one of the only planes in Warthunder than an F-5 could beat

@Pangolin_Fan

If you somehow struggle against the F-5 of all planes, then that is legitimately a massive skill issue.

‘Every plane that struggles to F-5 is a skill issue, except A-7’ at first.

@Pangolin_Fan

If we exclude ground attackers/base bombers, F-5 is one of the worst 10.7/11.0s.

Then you suddenly excluded ground attackers

@Pangolin_Fan

The reason I excluded attackers is because no1 plays em.

Because no one plays them (lie)

@Pangolin_Fan

I guess I should’ve specific the slow attackers that can’t defend themselves, or y’know

“What I meant was a slow, defenceless attacker!”

I wonder who would expect that on July 28th.
When you spitted in hour ago.

@Pangolin_Fan

Yes, because if you somehow managed to die to an F-5 in an F-111, when a fully laden F-111 is literally faster than an F-5, then that is massive skill issue.

I think I and other guy explained that a fully loaded F-111A is slower than an F-5

You are the one who told me that a fully loaded F-111A is faster than an F-5.

In fact, a fully loaded F-111A is slow as hell while being a completely defenceless attacker, which would fit your term perfectly.

Maybe F-111A with A2A loadout may be faster than F-5, but you know that you are the one who claimed full load.

Man, you are playing with your own damn words as hard as you can. Because nothing but you don’t want to admit you made diabolical claims.

And the current discussion is derailed as hard as we could and going round and round and around.

F-5C itself may look bad. It is a slow-supersonic fighter with bad missiles and relies on gunfight. Right?

But you exaggerated things too awfully which ends up with doomed claims.

F-5 can beat nothing except A-7 in a dogfight…
Harrier beats F-5…
Fully loaded F-111A is faster than F-5…
Nobody plays attackers…
Pff.

Yes. F-5C might not be as good as it was when it had no opponents.
But you are the one who exaggerated things.

If we consider all of the 10.7BR jet thanks to you who claimed F-5 can beat nothing but A-7 while it is easily defeated by Harrier

F-5C and its variant still maintain a higher rank than others, and deserve to be called ‘decent’ instead of ‘not good’

Well, maybe it failed to be on the podium.

---

I think this topic crossed the point of no return in terms of derailment and will create no positive return at all.
Then I wonder why mods didn’t intervene here yet.

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Stockholm_Blend

‘Every plane that struggles to F-5 is a skill issue, except A-7’ at first.

Yes, you listed one of Warthunder’s only planes that loses to F-5.

@Stockholm_Blend

Then you suddenly excluded ground attackers

I excluded ground attackers when som1 said that the F-5 is better than most planes at its BR, you just simply lacked the reading comprehension to see what I was talking about.

It’s not exactly fair to call the F-5 a great plane cuz it’s better than the A-7 and Buccaneer.

@Stockholm_Blend

Because no one plays them (lie)

When I said “no one” plays the A-7 and Buccaneer, that was an exaggeration. Obviously there are people that play em, but they’re so few and far between that they’re basically no1.

Again, you fail to realize something that was obvious to everyone else.

@Stockholm_Blend

In fact, a fully loaded F-111A is slow as hell while being a completely defenceless attacker, which would fit your term perfectly.

I will admit, fully loaded wasnt the best choice of words. Most F-111 players are smart enough to take a partial load.

@Stockholm_Blend

F-5C and its variant still maintain a higher rank than others, and deserve to be called ‘decent’ instead of ‘not good’

Well, maybe it failed to be on the podium.

The F-5 would be one of the worst 10.7/11.0s if it wasn’t for a select few attack planes that are even worse.

I wouldnt exactly call a plane that compares to Warthunder’s worst vehicles a “good” plane.

[Normandy_Corsair]

@Pangolin_Fan

Which is why no1 cares abt your opinions XD

[DiamondCraftLP]

@Pangolin_Fan

The F-5 would be one of the worst 10.7/11.0s

wrong

[Stockholm_Blend]

@Pangolin_Fan

I excluded ground attackers when som1 said that the F-5 is better than most planes at its BR

Man, when it acts better than most planes at its BR.
Then it could be called decent…

Sorry for not replying to other parts because I don’t want to say the same thing again and again…

[Pangolin_Fan]

@Stockholm_Blend

Man, when it acts better than most planes at its BR.
Then it could be called decent…

“Most planes” you mean the ones no1 plays cuz they suck?