The explanation for this nonsense is the shell shattering mechanic that was sharted out previous update but thankfully toned down this update. The game recognises those two seperated plates as spaced armor when they are just two fucking plates welded together… The reason why the T-54 can pen that plate is because you are aiming at it at 54o, at long range on flat ground it will strike but not penetrate.
1 Like
It’s just issue with armour modeling not shell. You have welded plates acting as spaced armour instead of as monolithic or heterogenous plate like they should so what happens is that Shot L1G defeat outer plate, shatters and does not have enough penetration while BR-412B strike outer 51mm plate, overmatch it almost 2:1 with penetration to spare and then go against 76mm plate.
That same Shot L1G will penetrate 150mm plate at 1000m at impact angle of 54 degrees (same as you used).
1 Like
I’ve stopped playing it altogether, the round has been stopped by a leopard 1s side skirt in the past. Yet again another mechanic added to the game that’s actually made it worse to play.
1 Like
Overmatching two plates welded together, thats another failed joke of a game mechanic, that the outershell of a single peice of armor can be overmatched but not the inside - that does explain why the UFP of the mark 10 is suspiciously weaker than it should be.
No, the stat card is correct.
Penetration values are done on single RHA steel.
Centurion has 2 plates welded together.
So if we got to say IS-6, sir poster, and try to pen its 120mm side plate at 60 degrees, it’s penned with ease.
So the penetration & stat card are both correct.
It’s just the Centurion’s front plate acts different for APDS than RHA steel.
On top of that, APDS is built differently from round to round.
Centurion’s APDS is more advanced as per Flip’s statement.
And Centurion’s front plate is not a single RHA steel plate.
Apologies if anything I said was stated prior.
@XreGenerations
It’s not a game mechanic, it’s a real-life physics thing. And WT simulates it.
You havent explained why. Two welded plates should be slightly weaker but shouldnt cause APDS rounds to shatter just because there is a 1mm gap between two plates.
1 Like
Interesting reading here.
Personally i dont have any real issues with the tank.
I think the round is good but i certainly feel that the armour is lacking a little bit.
But overall i do well and enjoy it.
Happy the repair cost got decreased.
Keep us updated.
This isn’t spaced armour though it’s just laminated. If layers of armour really caused shatter tanks would just be made of a bunch of thin layers, but of course applique solutions like this are inferior to single rolled plates. This would only be relevant against actual spaced armour like MBT-70 or composite sections like on T-55AM1.
Gaijin have poorly implemented a feature meant to make APDS struggle against spaced armour but 99% of the time it’s not working as intended, it’s just degrading the round when hitting multiple surfaces even when those surfaces are something trivial like add on tracks or It’s also not quite how shattering works.
20 Pounder Mk 3 APDS should not be struggling against this whatsoever, 384mm penetration, two laminate 100mm plates a 20mm thick track section blocks it completely.
7 Likes
Also the absolute most hilarious part of this is air sections AKA the SPACE in SPACED ARMOUR still doesn’t affect APDS at all, meaning L28A1 can penetrate MBT-70s cheeks quite easily. Which afaik MBT-70s spaced section is meant to stop that round at 800m, it’s probably one of the only spaced armour sections actually designed with that in mind.
Meaning this dodgy way of modelling tungsten carbide core breakup categorically doesn’t trigger when it should and does trigger when it shouldn’t.
I’m also confused why L28A1 and L52/M728 have such wildly different penetration values at flat and 60 degrees in game, the only real difference IRL is Tungsten Carbide core is swapped for a Tungsten Heavy Alloy. Yet in game L28A1 acts like it doesn’t have a tilt cap, but has really significantly more penetration at flat and 30 degrees, enough to make you wonder if L52 is even an upgrade.
I shot a leopard 1 in the side the other day and because the round hit the side skirt first all i got was a non pen message.
1 Like
The penetration figures for M728 are correct at 60o but they could be wrong at the flat, its possible that the 265mm pen is at 1000y not 0.
As it stands its mostly a downgrade from L28 and you are forced to use it when there is no reason why later vehicles wouldnt also carry L28.
What I love about the shattering BS is that super high velocity shattering segments conveniently dont present themselves as nasty spalling shards that will tear crew apart. Again, it was clearly a device used to balance the fact that APDS received historically accurate penetration figures, massively buffing L28 to the level that they should have been, but consciously kept low to buff Russian tanks.
Now, the shattering BS only goes away when APDS is late to the party and no longer useful.
3 Likes
If you are able to use it as intended its a good vehicle, unfortunately thats a niche role and Gaijin demands that you attack points. At range its probably annoying to shoot at as it has very tough cheeks and a trolly mantlet that is at best a coin toss for most rounds. Its also one of the most HEAT resilient heavy tanks in the game thanks to the silly spaced armor that can shrug off lesser HEAT ammo.
The damage model is the biggest problem with the game, and what makes the balance a disaster.
Rounds that are optimized for murdering crew are overpowered because the gameplay centers around murdering crew
Well, the APDS are one of the bullets that should kill the crew the most, but in the game there are many times in which they do almost no damage.
1 Like
Correct me if wrong but the idea of overmatch mechanic is that a peice of armor simply does not possess the strength to bounce a shell so much larger than it, issue is that two plates welded together equalling 127mm should have that structural integrity, I dont get why that outer layer should be overmatched because the 76mm plate behind it is holding it in place.
You are correct. We have testing data of the US 90mm against Jumbo layered UFP and it’s resistance is pretty close to a solid 4in plate.
I would suspect that layered armor would be slightly weaker than a full homogenous plate though.
That’s what I said though? Anyway, see for yourself: The Broken M4A3E2 Jumbo Sherman - Heavy Vehicles - War Thunder - Official Forum
Well as far as i can remember conquerror? apds never was so amazing tbh
compared to chieftain apds it sucked hard
2 Likes