Yeah, Gaijin is very much a fan of adding ‘efficient’ Copy-Paste. It’s an easy way for them to reach their goal of a vehicle for each nation, without even having to alter the models or sometimes not even changing skins.
3 Likes
Exactly, that is an easily verifiable fact and yet some here completely ignore it.
I have thought a lot about the issue and I believe that the best way to see future TTs would be with binational or regional TTs.
Coalition trees would have quality lineups and be easier to balance with big nations. However, Gaijin ignores this possibility, because that would imply more work and less c&p.
1 Like
And you should also consider that for each extra (sub) tech tree they add, they still want to reach their goal. (Otherwise there will be a big backlash and they’ll lose out on the profit of people that spend to get these vehicles in their ‘main’ nation).
1 Like
I’m not talking about anyone in particular, nor about this thread. I’m talking about the forum in general (even discord, facebook, reedit, etc.)
Yeah, I understood that. ;)
1 Like
I’m quite sad/annoyed that Hungary can now be grouped and compared with China, Israel and Finland for their high C+P rates. This is because Hungary (ground) could have been implemented so so much better… at present, they have just 5 unique ground vehicles and 6 copy-paste ones. I made an improved Hungarian ground subtree suggestion which includes 28 vehicles, only 4 of which are copy-paste ones, and 1 or 2 of those copy-pastes could easily be removed! That is literally just an 11% copy-paste rate with way more Hungarian tanks. Much better than how Gaijin added the Hungarian ground subtree with 55% copy-paste and less than half of the ground vehicles I demonstrated Hungary could have gotten!
Gaijin missed out most actually Hungarian tanks, and instead used more copy-paste than they needed, even though they made such a small subtree for Hungary.
2 Likes
Exactly, I agree. I think standalone tech trees are no longer feasible, and they would rely on a ton of copy-pastes, and still probably have way too few vehicles to make effective lineups. Alliances and regional tech trees, while historically and politically they could get messy, they would offer the best proportions of indigenous unique vehicles, kill the most birds with one stone (represent many countries at once), and offer great lineups and work well in-game. It may sacrifice a bit of historical teams accuracy, but that stuff is long gone and no longer feasible.
1 Like
Some alliance TT would make sense, such as BeNeLux or Swiss+Austrian, but Poland+Czech+Slovakia might get somewhat messy, though still possible. (Please no Arab TT though, their proposal is cursed on many levels)
1 Like
It’s still somewhat possible with World War events and some historical ones, but in random battles it’s pretty screwed yeah. xD
1 Like
Haha, yeah I’ve seen that, It looks very messy and I don’t think you can just put all Arab countries into a single TT, it doesn’t really make sense.
We can only hope they’ll add more unique Hungarian ground vehicles in the future. :(
1 Like
Well… gaijin being gaijin lol
that’s cool, but maybe it’s too much for a subtree
Tip: You should not consider criticism of Hungary as something personal against that nation. The problem has to do with the way the snail implemented that nation (personally tired of the Soviet filler). Prepare for criticism when the Hungarian airline arrives, because it will be 100% c&p.
1 Like
This is just a licence-built French Dewoitine D.21 isn’t it? So not an indigenous design.
This seems to be an unarmed utility/observation aircraft.
These are not separate designs, but variants of each other, so they would count as one.
This is a singular advanced trainer aircraft prototype based on the North American NA-16-1P fuselage. I don’t think I would count this.
This is again just a trainer, but it has 2 tiny machine guns, so it could maybe count I guess.
Again, a singular basic biplane trainer prototype based on the Focke-Wulf Fw44J. Does this even have guns? You yourself said it might be too weak.
This is good.
This is good. It’s actually pretty damn cool.
This is fine I suppose.
Out of those 10, I count 4 maybe 5 separate indigenous combat aircraft designs that were built and flown. But the FMA IAe 33 Pulqui II seems quite cool. Why didn’t you just mention that? The FMA IAe 37 also seems quite cool, shame it never flew in powered form. As a side note, I didn’t know that so many famous German, French, and Italian engineers emigrated to Argentina and built aircraft for them, that’s quite cool and definitely helped bring their aviation up to leading standards.
Yep… *sigh
Thanks, honestly not all 28 of them are needed, and some of them are in the SPAA line, but it’s just to show just how many there are that could work.
I know when people are complaining “Hungary = copy-paste” that the problem is with Gaijin’s poor implementation, but there are still people who think that Hungary only has the few indigenous vehicles that Gaijin did add, and they complain that Hungary should never have been added because “they never built any of their own vehicles”… that is what pisses me off, because they now spread false information to others and downplay what indigenous vehicles Hungary did make, basing their opinions on Gaijin’s poor implementation of a subtree. Just because Gaijin chose to add 10% of Hungarian vehicles, doesn’t mean you get to say the other 90% don’t exist and “why did they add Hungary in the first place, they should have added my country instead because even we built more than those vehicles”. Poor coverage of Hungarian vehicles just makes people think Hungary didn’t build any more.
As a recent example, TEC made a video about the possibly upcoming Hungarian air subtree, and he only mentioned a very few Hungarian aircraft, and spent most of his time talking about damn copy-paste training aircraft that aren’t even needed! Then predictably, in the comments I found people saying “when Hungary relies on trainer aircraft (it doesn’t) we can tell it will be a shit tree”, and other people going “ugh this is just copy-paste, nothing indigenous, it sucks”, meanwhile I’m there knowing how many actual Hungarian aircraft he missed out and how bad the video makes the Hungarian air tree look.
Oh god, I hope not, but I fear you may be correct, as that is what Gaijin would do…
1 Like
The dude talks a lot, but that’s about it tbh. Sometimes he’s right, but most often he only know things superficially. He has spread a lot of misinformation about the various vehicles that could be added into War Thunder. Some weren’t his fault, others were blatant negligence in his research discipline (if he even has any).
1 Like
Well, you asked for planes from the interwar period and there aren’t many of those in the game anyway, so on my quick list, a lot of them would be rank 1 and reserve.
You said that there was not a single indigenous Argentine vehicle in that period, I just wanted to prove that there was.
We are talking about a small country located far south at the end of the world, not Germany.
By the way, I only tried to give you 10 indigenous vehicles (M.B 1 and 2 counts as 1, I put 11 in total) in that period (1930-1945), as you asked, I also did not search too much and I did not include subvariants either.
Ae M.O had variants that had weapons (there were many scout variants and trainers), although it would be nothing more than a reserve.
FMA D.21 and I.Ae 23 are not yet in the game, which is why I have included them as “unique”.
I.Ae 22 have 7.65 mm Madsen machine guns x2, 6 air-surface rockets of 11 kg each or 3 bombs of 50 kg each and had a third machine gun in a mobile aft in the rear cabin (It may not seem like much for you, but for the purposes of the game this counts, right?)
Pulqui II made its first flight in 1950 so I am going too far from what you ask.
Still, Argentina has unique things for an excellent subTT, but I am sure that when the time comes gaijin will choose to put the FMA H75 and F-86 Sabers instead of the I.Ae 22 or the I.Ae 33… :(
1 Like
There are people who say that the V2 was tested with Gloster Meteor engines, but it is hypothetical. IA-37 is one of my favorites.
Well… many people are unaware that between the mid-19th century and the mid-20th century Argentina doubled its population with immigrants, most of them Italian and Spanish and to a lesser extent from the rest of Europe.
I said that I doubt there are 10 completely indigenous and different designs that could be added to WT, and that if Argentina did produce any interwar/WW2 combat aircraft, then barely any.
I know, that’s why I was doubting it.
Well subvariants wouldn’t be completely different designs.
I see, but then they aren’t “indigenous”.
I suppose for reserve tier 1.0-1.3 it would be fine.
Unfortunately, that is exactly what Gaijin would do…
I just wasn’t aware that even top aviation lead engineers from several powerful European countries made their way to Argentina and continued their career working for the Argentine Air Force! I mean, pretty crazy that Dewoitine and Kurt Tank were designing aircraft for the same South American country, when just a few years prior their Dewoitine and Focke-Wulf fighters were fighting each other over France!
Dude, you make this too long, you will make people bored!!!
You said that Argentina never had 10 indigenous vehicles. And then you said that Argentina did not have a single indigenous design between 1930 and 1945.
Spoiler
I just showed him that we do have more than 10 indigenous designs and that in addition, we have several indigenous designs from the interwar period and WW2.
Spoiler
Yes, in reality our aeronautical history began much earlier. Argentina began its history in aviation very early with Engineer Jorge A. Newbery (former student of Thomas Edison), a fan of hot air balloons. In 1908 we already had an aeroclub and the first French Voisin biplanes arrived.
The Military Aircraft Factory (FMA, currently FAdeA) was created in 1927 and there were many projects and designs in those years, most of them in civil aviation. When the problems began in Europe, at the end of the 1930s, it was still quite common to emigrate to South America and Argentina had a nascent aeronautical industry (with a wind tunnel included) and job opportunities for many (including aeronautical engineers). Argentine engineers were greatly nourished by guys like Dewotine, Tank or the Horten brothers (to name a few well-known ones).
3 Likes
That guy is a hater, I was reviewing his latest comments and he only criticizes other people’s ideas, especially when he considers that something is copy/paste, they shouldn’t waste words on someone like him. Furthermore, he is not the owner of the truth, if he does not like copying and pasting, then too bad, he has to screw himself, he is not the owner of the game.
3 Likes