in real life no its not this is the same missile that was used on the Phantom 2’s during the Vietnam conflict and there’s a very good reason why they were only used in rear aspect and that’s setting aside their unreliability
Those werent Aim-9Ls though. Aim-9Ls entered service in 1977. Vietnam war ended in 1975
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This is straight from the US airforce’s website.
“The AIM-9L added a more powerful solid-propellant rocket motor as well as tracking maneuvering ability. An improved active optical fuse increased the missile’s lethality and resistance to electronic countermeasures. A conical scan seeker increased seeker sensitivity and improved tracking stability. The L model was the first Sidewinder with the ability to attack from all angles, including head-on. Production and delivery of the AIM-9L began in 1976.”
https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Fact-Sheets/Display/Article/104557/aim-9-sidewinder/
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Additionally, it’s known that some earlier IR missiles had limited all-aspect capability.
The British Red Top and the American AIM-9D are both known to have front aspect capabilities years before the 9L
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Airframe heating is plenty enough for an IR missile to lock onto if it is sensitive enough.
Indeed this has been known since the 1950’s, but it took a few years to get technology to do it reliably.
The British were working on an all-aspect IR missile called Blue Vixen in the mid 1950’s, and eventually Red Top had a real life head-on capability against Soviet supersonic bombers from the early 1960’s, but that isn’t represented in the game version because it was quite marginal.
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I’m not at all sorry to tell you that you have no clue all-aspect missiles work. Earlier AIM-9s were just rear-aspect missiles. Beginning with the AIM-9L which entered service in 1977, the AIM-9 had a seaker head sensitive enough to detect the friction between the airframe of the target and the air around it. That friction is not as detectable as the engine which is why the rear-aspect lock range for the AIM-9L is greater than the side-aspect and front-aspect lock ranges.
This entire thread, but especially this comment, is the definition of r/confidentlyincorrect.
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Actually:
Should be quite effective and is massively underperforming in game.
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Your own source disagrees with you…
Have you seen the IR signature of a jet flying around mach speed? The missile seeker is absolutely sentitive enough to see this:
If you think an IR seeker can’t lock onto that from the front. You are very, very mistaken. That is an F-35, the missiles can see you.
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I spent ages trying to find a picture like that and gave up :D
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It isn’t the first time I’ve had to look for them.
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Yeah I wouldn’t say that represents “massively underperforming” in the game - those examples are at 36-45,000 ft where heat plumes stand out a lot more, and air resistance is massively less than the low altitudes we play WT at.
I did see an official engagement map for Red Top when I was looking this up late last year, but do you think I can find it now??!! 🙄
There is a second bug post too:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/wi1YHANSfsrs
And this might be the post you are looking for:
Thanks - it was the 2nd of those - you can find it and a couple of others along with the complete document “DEFE 69/489 RED TOP/SIDEWINDER missiles on PHANTOM F4 aircraft” scanned on Red Top missile Performance & All-Aspect Capability | Secret Projects Forum
Requires a login to get the pictures - but that’s simple - registration only takes a minute and then answer the confirmation email.
Basically - Red Top has a considerable all aspect range when slaved to radar, but also a massive minimum lunch range from any forward aspect - depending on the target - eg it is much smaller blind spot for a Blinder than a “Hypo” (Hypothetical?) mach 2 at 60k feet
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Yep, though currently it barely has any side-aspect ability. Even with radar lock. I think ive had a headon lock once. at alt, with radar, vs F-104 and it was barely 1km away before I could fire
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I loved the casual destruction of OP over the course of this thread.
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It is most amusing to see someone post a source link and then have the source say the complete opposite thing. I could have left it there, but the F-35 thermal image is just fun. The F-35 can’t even go as fast as previous gen jets because it will heat up too much and damage the anti radar coating.
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Yeah. Red top in game is only rear aspect. Would be cool to see the seeker reworked to be closer to irl.
Both SRAAM and Red Tops are actually underperforming a lot. Both should have double their current range and limited all-aspect ability. An SRAAM overhaul was rumoured back in June, but we’ve heard nothing since. Both missiles are no where near as fun to use as they were back in 2022.
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Yeah. SRAAMs in game are very demandind