No. Radars don’t change the carrier frequency to launch(only f15 and f18 change the PRF if they are in MPRF to HPRF). What other radars do is add a separate illuminator, for a CW signal. F16C has a PDI(hprf waveform). The 530F guided on the F1’s main radar signal if I’m not mistaken which is LPRF(“PULSE”) and the 530D on a CW. Which is why the M2000 has a CW illuminator
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Would we not know that we are locked though?
Would FOX-3s negate most of this anyway?
Just locked.
Same way Mig 29s negate F4Es, 9Ms negate 9Js, one is more modern and came later than another. This is from Mid 70s till Amraam came around in 91’. You are comparing tech with more than decade in difference since IOC.
Not what I’m getting at. If you’re guiding an AMRAAM in Yes there will be even less notice in the first place than if they model the SARH on CWI waveform as you said.
Especially against an opponent with R-27ER… But then we’re basically back to war thunder before RWR.
An aim-7 launch on hprf is going to give the target’s RWR:
-
Radar frequency data (ident)
-
Lock warning
-
Possibly some more
It only really lacks the CW lamp, you’d still know you’ve been hard locked
yeah
yep.
AIM7 F and M are the only ones that are able to guide in this waveform. R27R/ER depends on a separate CW illuminator. Thus a missile launch/guidance warning.
The R27 is also not really correctly modelled in terms of guidance. It should have sort of adaptive PN, which we know how they are derived and the Inertial navigation is also fantasy. Right at launch the seeker head is locked into the direction where the target will be when the R27 reaches X(normally 25km) distance from the target and switches from I.N, locks the target and continues in SAHR.
At the phase of acquisition, the target must be in a 12° cone and ± 150m/s in speed. This would causes problem. Say you fire at a plane left 30° offset with I.N. ~50-60km. The missile will normally lead to point of interception, with the antenna pointing where the target will be at 25km from the missile. In this case (for example any value) 15° to the left from the nose. IF the target changes course to 60° the the right while the R27 is still in I.N, the missile will lead to that new direction, the target will be now the the missile’s right! But the antenna is pointing 15° to the LEFT! Now either the missile is trashed or needs to make the antenna point the target, which may kill the missile cinematically. I think the latter happens. which is why there’s a 4-5x increase in the proportional navigation(this is the adaptive part) in the formula during acquisition. Now here, the last info the missile got was that target was at a certain radial from it. But it looks for signals in the antenna cone ± 150m/s. And the target may have maneuvered or be close to the beam.
A.-target’s maneuvered and speed is out of ±150m/s zone
B. -may lock to clutter(don’t think I remember seeing target size being a condition somewhere) or chaff.
You are making shit up out of thin air without knowing how the signals differ or what they do. Besides CW, the AIM7 guides on the FM’d HPRF waveform, which is the same signal some radars use to track. HPRF STT lock signal == homing signal. Older radar’s like the phantom F4E used LPRF for tracking, but the used a CW for missile guidance coming from an illuminator. This illuminator turned on exactly when the missile got launched, and an RWR seeing this signal can tell there’s something in that direction providing guidance for a missile.
You only get this
- Radar frequency data (ident)
- Lock warning
There’s not more.
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This isn’t true. The R-27 series is guided with CWI, there is no separate illumination device on MiG-29.
It switches between two waveforms iirc… one for guidance and other for mid-course intermittently / not sure what the correct wording is.
Looked deeper tho and it seems N001/N019 doesn’t use a CW transmitter but uses r27 uses CW. Under SAHR CW(or guidance signal) is provided for 30ms and radar works the other 20ms. And on inertial nav, a full correction given by the radar is 7 cycles(30.72+20.48) of it thus every 358.2ms(0.35 seconds). 1 per missile. IF 2 missiles in the air, 1st takes 358ms and corrects, then 2nd receives commands for 358ms(during this time the 1st missiles gets nothing), it then corrects and 1st receives again and so on.
Quite interesting and different the soviet Method.
Yeah, haven’t analyzed deeply that(translating yandex everysinglething several times for multiple interpretations takes time). There’s a whole chapter for the guidance but its a headache to research when the document looks horrible compared to USAF and letters are so thick yandex struggles sometimes
What I need to look further is if
-A-the values are instruction for the missile to adjust itself(position/speed by each axis), by x quantity
-B-does it tell the missile by how how much the target moved/changed speed by axis. Here if you launch 2 missiles at a target going Mach 3.3(SR71), 971ms at 70kft, by the time the missiles gets a displacement update in one axis it may be beyond 300m thus no info.
-C-It is the update of the targets new velocity and position by axis at the time the missile goes SAHR.
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I recommend using Google lens to translate.
I don’t like how google translates russian stuff. Its wonky and gives unaccurate stuff in russian. Yandex image thing is pretty good, run a pic on yandex translator and the transation is comprehensible and higher quality than google. Might be as yandex is russian.
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I find the opposite is true.
@Gunjob any idea if missile thrust is modified by atmospheric pressure in-game?
I’m personally not sure it is, I know drag varies, but I think thrust is modelled as a constant atm, and I believe it might be a reason why we see such wacky thrust/drag coefficients in-game as the devs try to make a missile fit certain known launch params, leading to over/underperformance in other areas base on what specific launch parameters are picked…
As far as I know, the thrust of a solid fuel rocket engine does not depend on atmospheric pressure.And it depends on the pressure in the combustion chamber and the temperature of the fuel itself. Ie, the colder the lower the thrust, but the longer gorenje
It’s all wrong. This is for the MiG-29B. You need to read the manual for the rocket.
Thats wrong, thrust most definitely does depend on atmospheric pressure and I literally covered that multiple times in this thread.
Yes, I checked, it affects the so-called expansion of gases at the nozzle section. Which in turn affects the rate of gas outflow.Most likely, this is not modeled in WT, too many variables need to be considered
Not a clue sorry.
I mean, a pretty rudimentary way to implement it is literally just a modifier base on the difference in ambient pressure, seeing as thats the primary factor of change. This is already done with different map temperatures in-game, as colder air is denser and increases drag, which can be seen visually when comparing the same shells drop fired on 2 different maps…
Its not all that complex to implement.
It would be a bit rudimentary but it definitely could work. Theoretically they would just need to assign 2 coefficients (one for exhaust gas pressure and one for area), as, as you have said, we already have air density and pressure modeled in game
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R27works the same for all planes, the R27 will not be magically be different for another plane. It doesn’t make different calculations. Another document talked about the guidance of the R27ER and it basically the same to how its on themig 29B-R-27R. Авиационные управляемые ракеты К-27 и К-27Э
I still need to deeply read the R27 section.