so many vehicles have ancient damage models most WW2 and cold war vehicles need updates badly to handle the volumetric system its insufferable playing anything at lowtier due to these volumetric shot traps that you have to aim around
would you guys like to see a large damage model update for tanks that arent toptiers ?
you can discuss down here about specific vehicles and about the poll
I don’t understand what it means
what do you not understand ?
the problem is tanks have super weird armor spots for example T34 drivers port
redoing armor models on older tanks would simplify armor a lot making shells more consistent
Tanks armor, Shells, Projectiles ( before\post penetration ), accurate remodeling required for such mentioned and unmentioned details.
Such unadded features like “Armor Degradation Mechanic” need to be implemented for real world physics simulation, Realism improvements, and mechanics focusing and detailed review to make sure it matches, follows, and Simulate real life effectively.
how would you implement that would it take in account for metal quality or will everyone have same metal quality cause something like a T34-85 armor will degrade far faster than a shermans
Tanks, planes, Heli`s, ships, have their own Armor modifiers, it will be different from each other depending on the material type, Armor slop angle, And of course shell type.
While it may be true like a tank such as T34-85 Armor that its armor is casted, and with proper historical Implementation of its real armor in game, it will have significantly more Degradation ratio, since in real life, historical records from T34, showed that during a hit, there is a medium to high probability that the Armor will either degrade normally, Or simply break, due to unreliable wielding, Or casting of the armor.
While on the other hand the M4 Sherman had significantly higher manufacturing quality in terms of armor welding and casting than the Soviet T-34-85.
Imagine it like a wall, getting Hit by a hammer Once, it degrade, do it multiple times it will Be penetrated to the other side.
unfortunately this will only really work on lighter armored tanks as the degrdation a on something like 100MM front plate or higher will take longer than the match lasts i dont think it would be a big deal for heavy tanks
you would also have to hit same spot like 15 times which would be hard
Actually, its not about the enemy armor, its about the User Cannon, If the Enemy armor is 100mm For example, flat angle, and your cannon can pen 125mm from 100 meter range, you will can pen the enemy armor, from the first hit, and you will have a 25mm additional penetration at spare ( overpen ).
But if the there is heavy tank like the maus for example, who have a turret cheek armor of around 200mm ( not sure but hopefully close ), and your cannon can pen 125mm at 100 meter distance, you will be able to penetrated only 125mm at flat angle of the enemy armor at the same spot, at the same spot there will be only around 75mm Remaining armor to be penetrated, And since u have 125mm of pen at 100 meter distance, its possible to penetrated, and over penetrated, and there will be 50mm of remaining over penetration.
Armor already has different modifiers based on what type of armor it is, they could probably use that modifier in some way or just add a different modifier to the armor class.
Some armors do already degrade as well, Not entirely sure but i think armor like NERA, MEXAS and composites can be destroyed by explosive shells.
What you said makes sense, it’s just that I don’t know if Gaijin has enough funds to make these changes quickly, because it takes manpower, money, detailed research and modelling, and damage modelling, which is quite complicated. Gaijin has a huge number of land, sea, and air vehicles that need constant improvements, and there’s still so much to work on, so things can only get done one by one, I guess.
hopefully they dont just add some random spall plate everywhere like they did to tiger 2 making solid shot unable to blow ammo unless its a really hard direct hit.
Death to the T-34 driver hatch and IS2 mantlet
idk they have the money this game makes millions on millions a year so we definitely know they have the money just F14D made over a million in sales from what i heard so money aint the problem
I don’t think that’s such a good idea for this game.
Armor degration mechanic is not something this spagetthi coded game need.
Actually, Its more than easy to implement! Surprisingly, I will clarify it:
Imagine a block from 9 bits, Each bit is entangled with each other with invisible rope, When a 1 bit enemy shell hit, It will penetrate the Middle Right side bit and take from the block only one bit, How many left? 8,
Did it degraded? Yes, What reason? due to damage, Was there a shell left over? Dependent on Shell type, if it was AP, APHE, HEAT, HESH, ATGM, etc, if it was for example AP Or APHE, it will definitely make a left over bits in the penetrated area, If it was an ATGM, it will make a straight penetration hole in the armor, Simulating the Shock wave effect ( Monroe Effect ), And for simplicity, each bit will Start getting simulated when the game senses there is a shell coming BEFORE impact, For example:
A shell coming, Which direction? Front, Which Part of the tank? Hull, What shell type? APHE for example,
the operation will follow like the in the past example, also making aleftover, this Concept is incredibly simple and easy to implement, Follow a pre determined equations, rules, and conditions for the game to render and provide a precise answer about Armor Degradation mechanic and how will it increase game realism.
APHE would need to be nerfed… Sherman crews IRL survived relatively big APHE hits. The chances the detonator could be destroyed upon penetration must also be a feature at that point. But I imagine a Sherman tanking 8.
8cm hits frontally and side on would be annoying to most players. Just as much as a Tiger II with its old armor modifiers being cracked by an HE shell that didn’t even penetrate. Or high caliber rounds acting like HESH on the UFP whether they penetrate or not.
If solid shot AP/APC/APBC/APCBC became the new meta in terms of consistent damage on average many would be irritated. No more Jumbo gun port shots, Tiger cupola shots, Hellcats go back to being invincible menaces, etc. Tanks the community deems as annoying to deal with become only more annoying.
Adding too much realism makes damage only LESS consistent. Imagine being able to fight during an ammo cook off in WW2 tanks… You just ammo racked a Sherman and now he’s firing back, because you’re not forced to bail upon ammo fires (more common than a detonation in some tanks).
yeah im not asking for the world here all i want is just volumetric reworks done on vehicles so there optimized for the in game penetration system to make it more consistent
cause ive seen some absurd shots not pen i move over like 2 mm and it pens
Good explanation, +1.
I still think degration is two face sword.
On one hand it could actually benefits tanks with high firepower but mediocre armor against heavily armored units, on the other hand it can make heavily armored units kinda less impactful and make players play much more passive.
Still they can at least try this mechanic with event to see if playerbase would like it or not.
I’ve really wanted to see Gajin roll out incremental model updates similar to what Wargaming did with WoT, brining a few vehicles up to code each major update. They’ve sort of done this for the KT’s, but otherwise we only really get model updates if a premium version is released.
Ideally, I’d like to see them work from the bottom of the tree, up. The first tanks a player gets should look good to leave a better impression.
As for armor modeling, some tanks with more odd shaped cast armor parts certainly are overdue for volumetric, but if volumetric is going to become more common, I’d like to see volumetric shells have cross-sectional penetration calculations or something similar to reduce the circumstances where complex geometry results in absurd effective armor values.
Armor meta tanks already suffer at this point lol…
