Even in a full uptier it’s really strong due to amazing cannon + light tank mobility with heavy tank armor. It’s better than the 5.3 Panther imo.
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What “heavy” tank armour?
The gun is good, I’ll give you that, and the acceleration / top speed is also good.
But as soon as you find yourself in a bad postion, you can’t run away, or turn your turret to face the enemy if they flank, or survive a shot.
I guess if you compare it to the m6 heavy, then i suppose it has “heavy” tank armor.
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Most enemies simply can’t pen it reliably, and unless you willing throw yourself into a 1v2+, the reverse speed (which is only a single kph slower than Sherman btw) really shouldn’t be an issue.
my US 75 says otherwise.
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VK 3002’s armor is far more effective in practice than in prot analysis since you can force worse firing solutions on your enemies, but yeah this is going off topic.
T58 is not OP cause it’s simply too slow, and has a bad FCS (no therm, no LRF, and no stab) at a BR where stabilizers and speed are meta. It definitely has some strong suits, and is far from bad, but it’s easy for any average player to counter.
I mean, feel free to 1v1 me and find that out yourself.
It’s slow but has great gun handling that allows it to catch people flanking. The same can’t be said with SPHs, for example.
Sure it has no LRF nor stab, but at close range, a LRF is not a huge requirement. The 2.6s reload allows multiple attempts, and the stab is compensated for great gun handling and usable armour… though you shouldn’t really have to rely on it anyways. Even if you do get penetrated, the way the crew is spaced out makes it hard to kill the tank in one-shot via crew knockout, but if you go for the ammo, often times you will have to aim at a small sliver of the hull:
This, of course, is with one of the best rounds at 8.3 (105mm DM23).
Imagine having to deal with the T58 with an IS-3, for example:
The weakspots are much smaller, and you have a 20s reload if you miss.
At least you do one-shot it.
prob too busy flagging posts to 1v1
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In urban areas the T58 is at a disadvantage due to it’s large silouette, and long barrel which makes it possible to shoot it before it can see you.
That’s not really a massive advantage when most fights are settled in the first shot (something LRF and STAB greatly aids) and it relies on your enemy screwing up.
This is prolly the most or second most notable advantage of the T58, along with its cannon. Requiring multiple shots to kill does make it annoying (prolly why ppl hate it) but that’s not really balance breaking.
This is the best reason I’ve seen for moving it to 8.7, to give 7.3s some space to breath in uptiers. Also just general decompression.
I do wanna say though, moving it to 8.7 realistically wouldn’t have much effect on how “OP” it is as 90% of the enemies it faces will be the same.
I don’t really see the point. 1v1s aren’t a good indicator of vehicle perform. I’ve played both the VK 3002 and the M4A1 (76), and while the M4A1 (76) probably has better potential for getting lots of kills, it’s very easy to destroy if you do get a firing solution, unlike the VK 3002.
Somewhat.
It does have a large and long barrel that can be easily taken out, but like you said,
It relies on the T58 player screwing up.
The 2.6s reload just helps you kill more vehicles in quick succession, and prevents players from pushing you while typical MBTs would have been reloading.
Sure, but the T58 can stay in a defensive position and one-shot anything it comes across, while the stabilized MBT would have to go for the barrel / breech / commander and gunner weakspot before it can kill it, let alone get guns on target.
Armour for such vehicles should not be the main metric that should be focused on when talking about how good (or rather how OP) these vehicles are, especially with the VK3002’s mediocre (at best) armour. It can be worked around with the M4A1 76 W and other vehicles at 5.0.
If you truly want good armour at 5.0, the KV-1C has it covered.
Not necessarily. The longer barrels means the T58 needs to be defensive, and it lets enemies have some degree of control in corner situations.
That is useful, however it only comes into effect in limited situations, and I’d say it’s fair at the cost of LRF STAB and TVD.
I think you could replace T58 in that example with almost any other tank, and the results are the same. Having a good camping spot is just really strong against moving enemies regardless.
You are right, but it’s not just armor, it’s also speed and firepower. In a 1v1, your enemy will have a spaded tank, specially suited to destroy you, with knowledge beforehand that they’re facing a VK 3002. In random battles, your enemies will primarily be playing jack of all trade tanks like M4A2, T-34, and M18 that are ill equipped to fight VK 3002. Furthermore, they’re primarily newer players likely in non-spaded tanks who will struggle to hit your weakspot, if they can even pen it.
Well, the only times you’re going to actually see the barrel is if it isn’t looking at your direction.
If a T58 is pushing you, chances are that you will see their hull / turret before the barrel… and once you see their barrel it’s already over since they can shoot pretty much anywhere on most vehicles it comes across.
LRF STAB and TVD is extremely rare at 8.3, if not non-existent.
Even at 8.7, less than half the things get a LRF and STAB, let alone all three.
9.0 is where you start seeing those three combinations more regularly.
If it’s a fair deal then the T58 should be at least 8.7 based on that merit alone.
I mean you could, but you can’t replace the T58 with another tank if there are multiple enemies coming from the same angle – their reloads typically can’t handle that, let alone kill each of them in one shot regardless of how well-armoured they may be. T-55A could probably kill the first one but surely die to the second one. The T95E1 could probably also do the same, but with its abysmal 8.0s reload and sub-par armour would surely die to the second one. Neither of these have great reverse speeds mind you, and they don’t have access to smoke grenades either.
T58 could see another target somewhere else, kill it, and by the time the enemy tank next to it starts to push from a different corner, the T58 could already swing its turret back (with its 36 degrees per second turret rotation speed with neutral steering) and already be reloaded for that enemy.
If you’re talking about it in a random battles context, the sherman can do just as well, if not, better just because it can fire on the move (almost always would be able to shoot first), kill things in one-shot, and reload quickly to fire at another target.
Even the most inexperienced players at that BR range surely eventually finds out that the turret is an easy weakspot.
If struggling with shooting weakspots is that big of a deal, then the KV-1C must be even more OP, because despite it not having the best of mobility nor gun, they’re both adequate enough, even at 5.0, and has almost invincible armour to anyone who is unfamiliar against it.
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If it’s from US then it will never be OP because I am a US main.
Shame it isn’t in the USSR TT, as we would be on 78th thread about it at this point and how it proves bias and whatnot.
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Still have the chance though when they release the Object 770 lol
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Nope, it’s just not OP. I’m not biased towards it, I literally don’t even play it. You’re the biased one.