T32 Reload Time Reconsideration

Hello,

The changes I am floating do not need to be exactly what I am recommending. All in all, I am looking to lower the reload time of the T32 and T32E1. My arguments for this will be below. I will organize them as best I can so that arguments, for or against, can be made in an orderly fashion. My layout wont be perfect so please bare with me.

I. I understand that War Thunder doesn’t fully consider historical documentation when it comes to reload speeds. I feel like they are similar to pirate guidlines (a refernce for Pirates of the Carribean fans out there). This is fine in my opinion, utilizing a historical reload time is spotty, and would be an inflexible obstacle to balance. Using it as a general guideline is what I feel like the developers are doing. For example, we know a Tiger can reload under 10 seconds, so thats what we see in game, with Gaijin setting specific times. Correct me if I am wrong, but as it currently stands, in game reload speeds are based on a combination of a tanks level of protection, firepower, mobility, and, to a certain degree, win rate statisitics relative to the vehicles around its rank and battle rating. Using that logic, at 7.3 the T32 can see tanks as low as 6.3 and as high as 8.3. This admittedly awkward placement puts it in a position where, in down teired matches, the level of protection it provides can make it a tough nut to crack across the frontal area. In fully up teired matches to 8.3, where stabilized guns and APFSDS make an appearance. The T32’s level of frontal protection actually becomes a liability. The same logic applies to the firepower of the tank. The T32 is equiped with the T15E2 90mm gun that fires APBC, APCBC, APCR, and HE. The only two shells that matter on the T32 are the APCBC and APCR. The APCBC is capable of penetrating 224mm at 10m at 0º, with 76mm at 10m at a 60º angle. The APCR can penetrate 336mm at 10m at 0º and 75mm at 10m at 60º. This level of firepower is right in line with the tanks the T32 fights between 6.3 to 7.3. However, if you notice on an Aced and maxed out crew it attains a maximum reload speed of 14.5 seconds. This makes sense due to the vehicle having a great level of armor and good mobility for a heavy class tank. This logic is also consistent at 7.3 and 7.7. At 8.0 and then 8.3 this is where it starts to make less sense. At these ratings tanks start to abandon the age old APCBC META and adopt more modern ammunition like HEAT-FS, APDS, and even APFSDS. Many of these tanks also adopt more efficient and angled armor profiles to optimize weight against mobility. This means that many of the 8.3 tanks the T32 fights outclass the T32’s firepower and protection capabilities considerably. This is without mentioning that many 8.3 tanks are outfitted with fully stabilized guns. In this position, to make the T32 more competitive in those higher ratings while preventing the tank from seeming overwhelming at 6.3 and 6.7, I think the reload time should get a reduction from 14.5 seconds (Aced with a max loader) to 9.5 seconds (Aced and maxed loader). This will still give the tank a longer than average reload time in downteired games, but make you feel more capable in fully upteired matches against T-55As and the like.

II. Relative reload speeds in upteried games for high rank heavy tanks break down. From 7.3 to 9.0 heavy tanks start to go the way of the dinosaur (with few exceptions). While big, Imposing, and thick, these tanks start collapsing under their own girth. As stated previously having thick armor becomes a liability. It slows you down immensely, while not providing much of a benefit against more capable ammunition. This is the crux of the problem. At 8.3 Ammunition like APDS, APFSDS, HEAT-FS, and ATGMS are being rated and balanced in relation to other similarly designed munitions. We can see tanks like the M60A1(AOS), T-55A, etc, being balanced among each other when it comes to reload times, but then heavy tanks, which offer effectively better armor, but now at a significantly reduced rate of effectiveness, get reload times that are twice as fast as heavy tanks with around two times the level of penetrative capability. This creates a schism in how heavy tanks are balanced in higher ratings. Historically its understood that heavy tanks become outdated as MBTs come onto the stage, but at the end of the day this is a game. I don’t think early MBTs need reload time nerfs, not at all they are fine, however higher rank heavies, like the T32 need reload time reductions. This is already been seen. As the soviet heavy tanks push past 7.3 the reload time of the 122mm drops from about 21 seconds on an aced crew to as low as 15 seconds. Thats tremendous! Once again, the reload time of the T32 doesn’t need to go down to exactly 9.5 seconds, but I feel this would give much needed life to a tank that sits in shadow and is barely ever used.

3 Likes

You have to prove that IRL loading is faster than the reload you want in-game.
Zero tanks in War Thunder have reloads faster than their real-life reloads.

Examples provided by Felix:

Read the full post… im not asking for irl reload.

abrams reloading in 3 seconds
leopard 2 reload in 5 seconds
leclerc reloading in 4 seconds

yeah so this is just not true

Thanks for proving my post correct.
I’ll add the evidence to my own post.

ah my bad, read that wrong. Still, gaijin has said multiple times that reload rates are strictly a balancing factor. Id bet anything that the two loaders in the tiger 105 turret couldnt get that thing loaded in 12 seconds

1 Like

That’s why the Tiger 105 was delisted after all.
Reload will always be at-speed or slower than real life to give Gaijin room for soft balance.

AMX-13 is the only tank to get its at-speed reload from the start, partly cause the heavy lifting was done by other researchers prior to its addition to War Thunder.

Sources do state though that the T32E1 had a max RPM of 4 rounds per minute, which lines up with its max reload in war thunder.
image

4 Likes

I mean in that fantasy turret i would even be surprised that they would be able to reload anything to begin with

I like that the T32, to my chigrin, is actually close to it’s real life reload time, but I still feel it should have a faster reload time. Someone made a good point about the 10.5 Tiger II. It had its reload time reduced from 15.4 seconds to 12.5 seconds, the same as the T29. Which is crazy considering the 10.5 Tiger II has situationally better armor than a T29, has a greater horsepower to ton ratio, meaning it manuevers faster and accelerates faster, has a higher top speed, the shell has basically the same penetration with almost double the TNT equivalent filler inside the shell, and a rangefinder that is accurate out to 4000m. The only thing the T29 has going for it over the 10.5 Tiger II is 2º more gun depression, slightly better turret armor, and 3 .50 cal MGs. In all honesty (understand that I dont feel it should go up in battle rating). The 10.5 Tiger II has more in common with 7.3 tanks than it does 7.0 tanks. I find it weird that german heavies and mediums from 6.7 to 7.0 have also gotten noticeable reload buffs as well. The Tiger II used to have a reload time of 8.5 seconds. When they added ready racks to the Tiger II’s, they reduced the time to 7.5 seconds. The same goes for the Panther II going from 8.5 to 7.5 recently, and the 10.5 Tiger II went from 15.4 seconds to 12.5 seconds. Plently of american tanks including the T32 and T32E1 have recieved new internal ammo layouts (T32’s don’t have primary and secondary storage), and they have had ammo moved closer to the loader and breach, but none of them get any reload time buffs. I just find it silly that a tank sporting a 90mm gun, thats even sub-average at 6.7, has a reload time almost as long as 122mm gun, and a slower reload than a 105mm gun with significantly better ballistics on a heavy tank at 7.0. It doesn’t really make sense.

Also where did you find that document, i would love to look over and nerd out over the whole thing!

1 Like

it checks out because it use the same cannon as the T26E1-1, the T15E 90mm use 2 pieces ammuntion that is assemble when reload hence the reload time and which is why T26E1-1 has a ready rack
and the breach + the space was absurdly small hence the trouble and the long reload time