Supermarine Spitfire Mk Vc/trop - Star-Spangled Spitfire (II)

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Supermarine Spitfire Mk Vc/trop

   Hello everybody. I’d like to suggest the Supermarine Spitfire Mk Vc/trop for US aviation in War Thunder. The Mk Vc/trop was another Spitfire employed by the USAAF 31st and 52nd Fighter Groups during Operation Torch, where it saw successful combat debuts through early 1942 and the middle of 1943. This American Spitfire could have a place in the US nation as a low-tier alternative to the high-tier American Spitfire LF Mk IXc.


Key Characteristics

  • Agile Fighter
  • Reverse Lend-Lease Aircraft
  • Tropicalized Spitfire Mk.Vc with C-type wing
  • Rolls-Royce Merlin 45
  • 2 x 20-mm cannons and 4 x 0.303-cal. machine guns

History

Background

The Supermarine Spitfire Mk VC/trop was the subsequent variant after the Spitfire Mk VB. The Mk VC/trop retained Merlin 45 and introduced the Type-C or Universal wing and the revised main undercarriage. The aircraft with new wings could be fitted with either four cannon guns, two cannon guns & four machine guns, or eight machine guns. It was fitted to have belly attachment lugs for a drop tank to increase its operating range.

The distinctive change was that the aircraft had a tropicalized modification large under-nose fairing over the Vokes Multi-Vee filter for the carburetor air intake. The lessened speed of the air to the supercharger decreased the performance of the aircraft, reducing the top speed by 8 mph (13 km/h) and the climb rate by 600 fpm (3.04 m/s). However, the decreased performance was considered acceptable when employing them in harsh desert environments. The Mk VC also had enlarged oil and radiator intakes for more effective cooling in tropical and desert climates.

As the threat of an invasion of England receded, the battle fronts became predominantly developed in the Mediterranean, where, by the spring of 1942, the defense of the island Malta was becoming critical. The Spitfire Mk VC was the first aircraft to be sent overseas in large numbers to Malta and other bases in North Africa. Other Allied users also used them in Burma and Australia. Onboarding to Malta, the Mk VC was the first aircraft modified to carry bombs, which was able to bring one 250-lb bomb under each wing or one 500-lb bomb under the fuselage. The aircraft was widely used as a fighter bomber and interceptor in the Mediterranean. The Mk VCs saw only limited combat over Europe, and they were outclassed by the Fw-190s until the arrival of the superior Mk IX.

The Mk V became the most numerous Spitfire variant, with more than 6,000 units produced and delivered, and the Mk V was eventually to equip more than 100 RAF squadrons and other foreign squadrons, including the American Fighter Squadrons of the USAAF.

North African Adventure

When the 31st and 52nd Fighter Groups of the US Army Air Forces had sailed from England, they left their Spitfire Mk VBs behind. The latest tropicalized Spitfire Mk VCs would be issued to the groups upon their arrival in Gibraltar. Some pilots from both groups had been flown to Gibraltar from England to air test the Spitfires in preparation for their arrival. The groups formed as a part of the Twelfth Air Force that would oversee air operations in North Africa during Operation Torch.

The Torch landings around Oran and Algiers began early on November 8, 1942, and the 31st FG’s Spitfires headed for Oran from Gibraltar later that afternoon. As the aircraft approached the runway of Tafaraoui Airfield in Oran, the Spitfires got ambushed by four Vichy French Dewoitine D.520 fighters. One D.520 had shot down a Spitfire, killing its pilot. The Spitfires promptly set off in pursuit of the fleeing fighters and shot down two of four D.520s in the process.

The 52nd FG’s Spitfires flew into Oran over the next two days, settling at La Senia. Some Spitfires of the 52nd FG landed in Spanish Morocco due to the bad weather on route, where they would be temporarily interned. On November 30, during a sweep over Teboura, the 52nd FG claimed its first victories when Major James Coward and Lt. Warren each destroyed a Bf-109G. The Spitfires of 52nd FG fought numerous engagements over Tunisia during the next week. Later, they would damage and shoot down other enemy aircraft, Fw-190s, Bf-109Gs, Ju-87s, and Ju-88s.

The first pilot to become an ace flying the Spitfire in USAAF service was Captain Jimmie Peck of the 52nd FG, who claimed his fifth and last victory early on January 2, 1943, when he shot down an Fw-190 near Bone, Algeria, on defense patrols and interceptions.

During a major German counteroffensive in February 1943, the worst air-to-air engagement for the USAAF occurred on February 4 when the 12 Spitfires of the 52nd FG escorting ground-strafing P-39s were intercepted by German aircraft of II/JG2, taking down 3 of the Spitfires for no losses. At this time, Americans found themselves frequently outclassed by the flying of JG2 and JG77, sent to counter the North African invasion.

While the 31st FG settled in Oran, it moved quickly from base to base throughout Algeria and Tunisia, mostly engaging in ground attack missions and later escorting P-39s and A-20s on missions to ground attack German troop positions and convoys. During the German counteroffensive, the group found themselves bearing numerous losses as they attempted to stop the Afrika Korps advancing beyond Kasserine and on to Thelepte, which had to be evacuated from Tunisia in short order, leaving a dozen unserviceable Spitfires behind.

The 31st FG retreated to Tebessa, Algeria, and the 52nd FG to Youks-le-Bains Airfield, Algeria. Later, the German offensive came to a halt, and by February 25, 1943, the Allies had regained control of Kasserine, forcing Afrika Korps back towards Tunis.

Advance to Tunis

With Afrika Korps in retreat, the American Spitfires of 31st and 52nd FGs resumed their escort activities over the front. The 31st FG would follow its success over the next few weeks. However, casualties began to be inflicted on the groups as the Fw-190s and Bf-109Gs of the experienced II/JG 2 continued to terrorize the Spitfires and Allied aircraft. By March 21, 1943, the groups had adopted the more aggressive tactics of the RAF’s Western Desert Air Force. They would be able to counter the experienced German fighter wing. It worked when the 36 Spitfires of the 31st FG intercepted across 17 Ju-87D-3s of III/St.G.3, escorted by Bf-109s and Fw-190s of JG77 and JG2. The 307th Fighter Squadron of the 31st FG focused on pursuing the fighters, while the 309 of the 31st FG shot down four Ju-87s and claimed another four as probable for one loss. The following day, the 52nd FG claimed 5 Bf-109s, 2 Fw-190s, and 2 Ju-88s for one loss, a crash-landing due to the flak damage.

By April 1, 1943, the Allied ground forces broke through the lines, advancing towards Tunis. The FGs continuously flew escort, patrol, strafing, and reconnaissance missions to keep pressure on and defeat Axis forces in Tunisia and provide air cover for their Allied ground forces. They became very successful units in North Africa, as they tallied up more kill claims in shooting down the German aircraft, Fw-190, Bf-109, Ju-87, and Ju-88.

By April 20, 1943, the Allies had formed a complete ring around the Axis forces trapped against the sea. The war in Africa approached its end; however, much stubborn fighting in the mountains would have to continue to clear out pockets of resistance. The American Spitfires flew and bounced on any German aircraft attempting to evacuate from Tunisia for Sicily. The Spitfires had shot down several Bf-109Gs and Fw-190s as the German aircraft desperately jettisoned their long-range tanks and dived away for their lives.

May 6 became a very busy day for the Allied fighters, as, before dawn, the Allied ground forces launched a final major breach attack on Tunis. The Spitfires of the 31st FG saw some intensive action during ten sweeps that day around Tunis. They fought in various engagements, clashing with Bf-109Gs and Fw-190s for almost the rest of the day. That day, the 31st FG’s tally of 11 aircraft shot down had set a record in the North African theater for the most fighters destroyed by an American fighter group in a single day to date.

The Spitfires of the 52nd FG continued their sweeps on May 9 and claimed shooting down six Bf-109Gs. These were the final USAAF Spitfire victories of the North African campaign before all resistance ceased, and the last Axis forces finally surrendered in Africa on May 13, 1943. As a total, the 52nd FG claimed 86 victories, while the 31st FG claimed 61. Major Frank Hill of the 31st FG became the top US Spitfire ace of the war with 7 victories.

Shortly after the fall of Tunisia, the 52nd FG was transferred to the control of the North African Coastal Air Force for shipping protection and defensive duties.

Around this time, some Spitfire VIIs and IXs began to be issued to both USAAF groups. In August 1943, the 308th FS of the 31st FG became the first USAAF unit to operate the Spitfire Mk. VIII, and the group had some Mk. IXs restricted to provide high cover for the Spitfires Mk VBs. Along with Spitfire VBs and VIIIs, the American Spitfire VCs saw their final missions consist mainly of sweeps over allied positions and escorting bombers attacking German positions in Sicily and Salerno before phaseout. Thus, it concluded the Spitfire Mk VC’s service with the USAAF.


Specifications

Supermarine Spitfire Mk Vc/trop

General Characteristics

  • Crew: 1 (Pilot)
  • Length: 29 ft 11 in (9.12 m)
  • Height: 11 ft 5 in (3.48 m)
  • Span: 36 ft 10 in (11.23 m)
  • Wing area: 242.1 sq ft (22.5 sq m)
  • Propeller Type: 3-bladed Rotol constant-speed propeller
  • Propeller Diameter: 10 ft 9 in (3.28 m)
  • Powerplant: Rolls-Royce Merlin 45 liquid-cooled piston engine
    → 1,470 hp (1,096 kW) @ 11,000 ft (3,353 m)
  • Internal Fuel: 85 imp. gal. (386 L)
  • Oil Tankage: 5.8 imp. gal. (26.4 L)
  • Empty Weight: 5,100 lbs (2,313 kg)
  • Gross Weight: 6,870 lb (3,116 kg)

General Performance

  • Power-to-Weight Ratio: 0.21
  • Critical Altitude Speed:
    • 312 mph @ 10,000 ft (502 km/h @ 3,048 m)
    • 334 mph @ 15,000 ft (537 km/h @ 4,572 m)
    • 356 mph @ 20,000 ft (573 km/h @ 6,096 m)
    • 365 mph @ 22,000 ft (587 km/h @ 6,706 m)
    • 364 mph @ 25,000 ft (586 km/h @ 7,620 m)
  • Wing Loading: 28.4 lb/sq ft @ (138.6 kg/sq m)
  • Rate of Climb: 3,700 fpm (18.8 m/s) @ 3,000 rpm
  • Time to Altitude:
    • 2.7 minutes to 10,000 ft (3,048 m)
    • 4.6 minutes to 16,000 ft (4,877 m)
    • 6.15 minutes to 20,000 ft (6,096 m)
    • 12.5 minutes to 30,000 ft (9,144 m)
  • Service Ceiling: 36,500 ft (11,125 m)
  • Combat Range: 500 miles (805 km)
  • Max. Range: 1,100 miles (1,770 km)

Armament

  • Guns:
    • 2 x 20-mm Hispano Mk.II (60 rpg; 120 rounds)
    • 4 x .303-cal. Browning machine guns (350 rpg; 1,400 rounds)
  • Bombs:
    • 1 x 500-lb bomb
    • 2 x 250-lb bombs
  • Drop Tanks:
    • 1 x 90-gal drop tank
    • 1 x 30-gal drop tank

American Spitfire Mk Vc/trop Livery Examples -- Illustrations

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Images

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Conclusion | Why it should be in the game

   I made this suggestion to request more World War II-era vehicles to add to War Thunder. The Supermarine Spitfire Mk Vc/trop was one of the most successful foreign aircraft for the USAAF fighter groups that operated in Operation Torch from 1942 to 1943. The Mk Vc had extensive historical combat records that involved bomber escorts and fighter sweeps against Axis forces in North Africa and Italy. This low-tier Spitfire would be an excellent premium material or tech tree aircraft with MTO camouflage in USAAF markings to represent its operational service with the USAAF.


See Also - American Spitfires


Sources


Thank you for taking the time to read my suggestion! 😃

I don’t really see why people are saying no to this, the USA operated them in service. There is literally no reason not to add this aircraft to the TT. Big +1!

5 Likes

A +1 from me! This could make for an interesting Premium or BP plane! Plus there are a lot of well-known camos to choose from as extra rewards for events or a BP!

3 Likes

-1, US has plenty of aircraft and there is enough copy paste in this game as it is. We don’t need more.

3 Likes

Ok, cool. But I disagree that it’s 100% copy-paste. We don’t have a Spitfire Mk Vc/trop with this specific armament configuration (4x 7.7mm + 2x 20mm) in-game. The British tree’s Mk Vc/trop only has 4x 20mm and can’t swap weapons unless Gaijin changes that.

Sure, the airframe is identical, but I wouldn’t call it a complete copy-paste. Thanks to your comment bumping this suggestion, especially after the American A6M2 was removed last fall, I’d love to see this as a potential replacement as a premium option for the US. Unlike the A6M2, this American Spitfire Mk Vc/trop actually saw combat in the Mediterranean against the Luftwaffe. It makes the suggestion way more valid historically.

Also, let’s be real. The US tree lacks dedicated prop dogfighters with great turn rates and climb performance at low tier. Most US props are energy fighters/BnZ aircraft. With the A6M2 gone, this Spitfire would perfectly fill that gap, just like the Italian Spitfire Mk Vb/trop at 3.7 BR. If you know a better dogfighter option for the US, name it! I’m open to this discussion!

However… if you’re just here to complain ‘copy-paste bad’ even though you had considered its historical service… well, too bad. That’s on you because I’ve noticed that’s your usual approach in suggestion threads with other copy-paste vehicles, so I’m not too bothered by your opinion and can dismiss your opinion.

Anyway, thanks for bumping this suggestion! 👍

1 Like

I picked Great Britain for a few reasons, among them, the spitfire. It is an iconic vehicle that belongs in Britain. I know there are some in other trees, yet that should not be a precedent for its proliferation in other trees. Furthermore, the US is not only jam-packed full of iconic, original vehicles of its own, but adding this vehicle would add yet another reason to play America over Britain, considering a spitfire would be available, which would most likely decrease the variety in air battles.

3 Likes

+1 a Spitfire for one of the many US aircraft used by the UK sounds like a fair trade to me.

3 Likes

I’m not sure how this would decrease air battle variety. This aircraft historically served in American fighter groups alongside domestic US fighters. I seriously doubt that adding it to the US tree would suddenly make everyone abandon the Britain tree. The British still have millions (pardon my exaggeration) of Spitfire variants to choose from, while the US would only get a handful at most. If anything, that should be incentive enough to play for Britain for other Spitfires. This suggestion just gives US players one more historically accurate option, a pure dogfighter, which I argue is a solid replacement for the American A6M2.

1 Like

Aye, and I’ll admit I was super disappointed to see the Akutan Zero removed from sale. I mean, it was the perfect premium. The thing provided a different flavor of gameplay to the US TT and was also a historically significant aircraft to boot. Frankly, having a premium American Spitfire would be a nice replacement for the Akutan Zero, but honestly, I’d like to see the Zero added back and for the Spitfire to pop up as well.

1 Like

I absolutely hate the american zero.

You’re flying in air sim. You see a blue plane with american roundels. You engage using appropriate tactics for fighting a P-47. You then find yourself fighting a zero.

While presently U.S and UK are always allies in air simulator, so IFF is a non-issue - I hope to one day have options for alternate history where US joins the axis and thus a chance to fight U.S aircraft as britain.

I’m already very much not a fan that if I want a premium mustang or corsair, I need to buy British premiums. I bit the bullet and got the Mustang Ia because I need sth that gives me SL, but I’m not happy about it.

If anything, we should remove U.S aircraft from the British tech tree and move it to the U.S, we should remove german and japanese aircraft from US tech tree and move it back where they belong. What’s the logic behind me wanting a premium Bf109F4 and being forced to fly U.S? U.S and germany are never on the same side to boot.

We should not be making this issue worse.

3 Likes

That’s definitely a fair critique, and I’ll admit I don’t play Sim myself, so I can’t comment too much on it, but I feel that stuff like that shouldn’t be allowed in Sim. That said, I stand by what I said. It’s the perfect example of what a premium should be. It’s something that’s unique for the tree, and it’s also a super historically significant vehicle.

I disagree with that for a number of reasons. I mean, the US Aircraft in the British TT do belong, as they were used extensively in combat by the RN and the RAF. The other ones you mention fall into the same category as the Akutan Zero

2 Likes

-1 why add when there is so much WW2 US fighters left to add

1 Like

I’d argue historical reasons. From what I recall, Mk Vc was used extensively by the 31st and 52nd Fighter Groups. A bunch of their aces actually got their ace status flying the Spitfire. I think I’d be a neat little premium as a nod to both the 31st and the 52nd. I, for one, would buy it just for the history, which for me is a tad more important than it being C&P. But that’s just my two cents because I love that sort of history

4 Likes

Then Britain should get this ‘vehicle’ instead, either as it’s own aircraft or as an armament variation of the TT aircraft. As for this ‘replacing’ the A6M2, no. We managed to lose one more copy-paste vehicle, no need to replace it with another. While it is better in that it was actually used, that isn’t enough for me to agree that it is worth implementing.

Which is not a meaningful issue, not meaningful enough to justify another American Spitfire. And let me humor you for a second, and say that there is a gap that needs to be filled. A vehicle that would fill such a gap should not be premium, it would have to be in the tech tree, which would preclude your proposal.

Besides, if you really want a ‘dedicated American dog fighter’, the P-36 is right there. And if you are really deadset on more ‘dedicated dogfighters’ for low tier US, there’s a plethora of P-36 variants out there that could fit, and probably quite a few other prototype aircraft as well, though I don’t know enough about aircraft to know just by looking at a stat block about just how maneuverable a plane would be.

And if that, for some reason, isn’t enough for you, go play some of the minor nations that could do with the players. Not every nation needs to have everything, and the US does just fine without a ‘dedicated dogfighter’ at 3.7. At that same BR, you have not one, but two P-51s, and .3 higher you get to the P-51D, the Airocobra, and the Black Widow, all of which are incredible aircraft. There is no need for more copy paste bloat then is necessary, and an American Spitfire isn’t necessary.

1 Like

While historically significant, it’s still an issue of being forced to play in other trees just to fly your preferred aircraft. I think simply adding these as skins when there weren’t changes and disabling those skins in sim would be fine.

Premium hellcat? Fly british. Premium corsair within the 3.0-5.7 BR range (as 6.0-9.3 is kind of dead)? Fly british. US/Britain isn’t that annoying because same side, but…

The Bf109 is very annoying. The P-47s are also very very annoying.

I think, if we don’t remove “you’re forced to fly bluefor to use a Bf109F4 premium”, we should implement the silver lion talisman which gives 2x SL gains, allowing you to premiumify any aircraft and remove the need for weird “it must be unique.”

For me, the perfect premium is a 1:1 copy paste of a tech tree vehicle with superior economy modifiers in the same tech tree as the origin aircraft, or only minor differences. This way, I don’t have to choose between “I want to fly my favorite plane” and “I want to make decent amount of SL.”

Annoyingly, gaijin has been taking such aircraft off the market more and more or putting them only on the marketplace.

I raise you the F4U-4/F4U-4B. It’s a very capable, jack of all trades aircraft that can go toe-to-toe with german props and have a good chance at winning even at equal starting energy state provided you have altitude to cash in on.

2 Likes

Sure, but in the end this spoils even more uniqueness for the UK tt. They deserve to have unique vehicles as well.

spitfires are also quite out of place in the US tt imo

1 Like

Hardly. The UK still has a ton of super unique and only British aircraft in its TT. I mean, the Spitfire isn’t the only unique plane in that TT; there’s a ton of other stuff.

Which is why I’d argue for the premium option

1 Like

i guess I should specify unique & iconic vehicles. i guess there is lancaster but that isnt a fighter tbf.

even as a premium it doesnt fit. i mean, someone grinding the US tt with a spitfire just doesnt make sense

1 Like

Ok, if that’s your opinion, then fine.

The P-36 is Rank II at best. It’s completely useless for warbond tasks that require Rank III or higher. The Spitfire Mk Vc/trop could perfectly fill that gap as a Rank III dogfighter for the US tree. At least it would serve a practical purpose this way. It’s up to Gaijin how they want to make it a premium or tech-tree aircraft.

I’ve played minor nations extensively, so I get the concerns. But adding these American Spitfires would give US players something fresh, a proper dogfighting option instead of yet another energy fighter. In my humble opinion, in the current air RB meta, dedicated dogfighters are meta and just as dangerous (if not more than) BnZ planes, yet the US tree barely has any. This would balance things out.

1 Like

I agree about the F4U-4, but the F4U-4B sits at 5.7 BR. That’s solidly mid-tier in my book, not low-tier. The Spitfire Mk Vc/trop just isn’t in the same league performance-wise as the F4U-4B.