I think those graphs are calculated for the F-15 based on flight manual and spy data. I have a Soviet spy document on the F-15 from 1983, which is actually a copy from the flight manual for the F-15A.
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection
TsaGi also created a reference model of the F-15 aircraft that was used in the wind tunnel. The model would be based on photos of the actual aircraft.
And also, at the time the Su 27 was being made, a model was also made for the blowdown in a configuration similar to the F-15. Attached is a photo.
These are just acceleration graphs. For turning performance, the graphs are quite close
The range limit has been increased from 60 to 80 km in both HPRF and MPRF modes.
Radar ACM is now 60° tall instead of 50°.
This is not an F-15 model, but one of the layouts of the future Su-27
Sukhoi tested two options.Traditional and integrated layout.But later the commission approved the option of an integrated layout
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Still dumb low. Instrumented range is 150 km and gaijin limits N001 range by 3m^2 target range.
Yes, now they need to just fix HPRF locking on grouped targets, otherwise the only usable range for locking is 50 km with MPRF
Does anyone else seem to rip their wings off a lot in rb in su27? Instructor keeps rolling with the rudder and ripping my damned wings off. I flew in sim and never had that issue once. Also tends to over rudder into a stall.
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The only time that I rip my wings with the Su-27 is during steep dives if I stop paying attention to my air speed and get going too fast.
lol fr, nice camo btw
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Yup especially if you have the AB on at high Mach numbers. GJ intentionally did this as it was not an issue in the dev server. Neither was it there upon release.
I do actually think the devs did a great job on the Su27 model so far. It is very realistic in full real if you let off the burner and use gravity etc.
However, the intentional Rip and the nerf to the airspeed in which you can pull supermaneuverable performances is heart breaking. Went from 900km, down to 700km-800km. Now if you attempt to pull high alpha (even in full real) there is an artificial limitation holding the jet at 800km+ from pulling alpha until you get slower and if you are at Mach 0.7+ you immediately rip the jet and die.
You no longer can do a real Pugachev’s Cobra as result. The limitation at 800km makes the jet pull up and gain altitude performing a cobra (dynamic deceleration) and any slower the jets nose falls to the earth because it literally stalled. Completely defeating all tactics out of the maneuver in the first place. A true cobra can be done at high subsonic speeds and the Flanker remains relatively level.
It is the Mig29 that gains more altitude performing a cobra.
But the Mig29 cannot remotely do it in game and the flanker currently gains a massive amount of altitude because of the further limitation they put on alpha at 800km.
Western propaganda will claim that the cobra maneuver and supermaneuvrability is not feasible. However, that is not true and that is why the United Stated invested heavily on high thrust to weight and thrust vectoring in the F22. The ability to cobra/dynamic deceleration is not only for 1v1 dogfight purposes. Its Soviet doctrine to allow flankers to quickly decelerate and change direction to notch/defeat western radar missiles. I think GJ is making a mistake by leaving out these critical performances or “hindering” them. Hope a devs see that.
From Paralay (Russian server) The importance (" Cobra") is rather in the psychological preparing of pilots, in expanding the limits of the idea of the aircraft’s capabilities. Well, and for the airshow. It was only done by a few people in the regiment. The speed range for entering this maneuver is very narrow +_ 50 km/h. The tactical value of the maneuver itself is rather questionable, it’s rather tricky. Incidentally, it was with the 279th Regiment that the aircraft crashed while performing it, P.P. Kretov successfully ejecting in a reverse spin. It was May 11, 2000, after that no one else in the regiment performed “cobras”."
I asked an American F-15 pilot for his opinion on the Cobra maneuver. He said it was a last-ditch maneuver. Losing speed means the plane is a "sitting duck"after the maneuver. With BVR he said it’s similar, he would be off radar for a while, but the moment he starts to move, radar finds him, plus the plane is left with no speed after the maneuver- so at a big disadvantage. He thinks ideally these planes should do Cobra as often as possible to make it easier to shoot down… He said that for fun.
Source for that if you have. Keep in mind I am specifically speaking in regard to the Su27. The Mig29 surely has range as well. If you have both that will be nice as well.
Additionally, regardless of if your speed range is correct, (Which it is not as Su-27 footage shows vapor clouds which only form 200 knots+) we must keep in mind fighter such as the F-16 and rate at speeds and high Gs far better and even accelerate and climb completely contradictory to reality.
That is an American doctrine. Amercian doctrine is based on energy maneuverability. That dogfighting is a quantifiable science rather than an art. Therefore, whatever he has to say is largely irrelevant as it contradicts his training and doctrine. Of course, he will have negative to say in regard to it. He was trained in a completely different doctrine, and totally different aircraft that is contrary to Soviet doctrine.
Valery Menitsky wrote in his memoirs about the suitability of the Cobra manoeuvre quite similar to the conclusions drawn from the paralay and from the F-15 pilot. He was a MiG test pilot. and his book is fantastic.
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Thats totally cool. If you can source the speed ranges for both aircraft that would be a big help. Additionally, regardless of whether Soviet/federation tactics are feasible in your mind or the mind of your F-15 pilot friend/Valery Menitsky a Mig29 test pilot is irrelevant still.
The premise is missing performances in the Su27 in full real.
The only person I found who considered Cobra a valid tactical maneuver was Pugachev. Menitsky and a large number of other Russians and Soviets said the exact opposite. I’m not arguing, I’m just writing what I found in my research.
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I am not disagreeing with you, western doctrine or a word you friend had to say. However. Soviet doctrine dictates these aircraft can pull dynamic deceleration and reach dynamic attainment at high subsonic speeds. Vapor clouds in footage would indicate as well. Just have not found solid numbers as of yet. Also, It’s not solely Pugachev’s cobra. I only brought his maneuver up because in game it is no longer able to be performed properly.
Please do not fixate on the cobra maneuver itself when again, I merely said you are no longer able to perform it correctly in game anymore in full real. The cobra maneuver is simply a form of dynamic deceleration. Dynamic deceleration is a type of maneuver performed by aircraft that have the ability to reach Dynamic Attainment, also known as Supermaneuverability.
If we are talking about BVR, then the Cobra maneuver is absolutely useless. If we are talking about BFM, then it is very controversial
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