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Why even?
Do they not realize T10 and Su-27S are far removed from each other?
It is like claiming J-35A will fly like FC-31, just to make an example.
It’s not like there is a lack of documentation for Su-27S in the first place.
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection
Because they are believing that Flight usage book №10SK (about Su-27SK) is completely wrong and they are using book №10 (T10).
b-but russian bias
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…
I have no words.
T10 is different in so many ways compared to Su-27S, it’s not even funny.
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Idk how to convince them
FAB-500T UMPK has TV guidance?
Maybe tell them to open their eyes if they think that they’ll fly even remotely similar to each other?
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No. I was just corrected. It’s a high speed release point variant. You can go like mach 2 when dropping it. I assumed the T was TV, but it was not.
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They see some inconsistencies in flight usage manual book №10SK and preferring learning papers that is based on flight usage manual №10 because “it more convincing” and “some numbers just doesn’t make it” in №10SK.
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What kind of inconsistencies do they claim?
This would explain so much about why the first Flanker feels so jerky. If they’re insisting on information that’s meant to explain the T-10, not the Su-27, then we’re totally off on what they’re using.
LERX’s basically don’t exist at that point, vertical stabilizers are wrong. Pretty sure powerplant is wrong too.
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They are just saying that half of numbers can’t make it without anything specific.
I remember only about climb rate of 300 m/s that too much for AL-21 on T10 and too few for AL-31.
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So not even an explanation…
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I knew there had to be something wrong with the FM. It flies nothing like the literature describes.
Makes you wonder what version of the T-10 they’re even working with. So much time went into testing the flight beds at TsAGI, and SibNIA did a ton of modelling. They knew before T10-1 even flew that the current LERX’s no longer had any affect on the airframe’s ability to achieve proper AOA. Both T10-1 and T10-2 flew with the AL-21F-3AI’s, so that’s a huge issue too. There were like 11 or 12 different T10’s before the T-10S even. What a sh*t show.
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Our current version that they are using T10-15 as reference, because it was made in 1982 as the learning papers
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The use of T-10 book over Su-27SK book is not relevant to the discussion of the installed thrust as they are using the erroneous calculations for the installed thrust leading to it being too high. If they just went with the aerodynamics of the T-10 it would not be as bad, but they had to worsen the oswald coefficient and the specific excess power it not sufficient.
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What was their excuse for not accepting reports on this again?
I remember it being “oswald efficiency is assigned individually to each part, not the entire airframe” or something.
Pretty hilarious.
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Excuses are meaningless, discussing what the excuse was is equally pointless. The community is being treated as though they do not see their lies and mistakes when it is obvious.
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Poor Blue 20 is missing her Vert-stab wing tips, my reference photos show her with standard wing tips.
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So the issue is that we have a T-10S (Su-27, essentially) in game, but they’re using values from the T-10, not the T-10S. Again, I wonder, what early T-10 FM values are they even using? Not every early T-10 airframe even has the same shape.
How is it not? The early T-10’s had AL-21’s, that has to be a problem as well.
Early T-10 airframes are way different than the T-10S and suffer from horrible AOA, let alone none of the Flankers are really capable of stable flight without Fly-by-wire, so T10-1 for example going to be clunky as hell as it’s semi-mechanical.
Smells like T10-1 to me.
From discussing this all so far it seems like T10-15 (T10S) with individual Oswald efficiency to each part (possibly why flaps/flapperons and trim are all crap), remaining values are all all from T10 early model, and thrust may be modelled incorrectly as well.
Absolute sh*t show, like I said.
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If anyone has something to add, you can suggest me changes to this bug report on Russian or even post your own comment there on English