this is what i quoted, "These Radars never had Radar HMS compatibility. Its technically impossible ", and based on this assumption he claims that those hmd were only used with ir missiles, i was addressing the first statement.
Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection
So you’re cherry picking?
Using another radar with another HMD system from an entirely different platform does not address the statement.
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he argumentated that the it is “technically impossible” because it is an outdated radar and for those systems is necessary to used with planar array ones or more modern, since they have directional beam control, again youre not reading the context, and i prove that cassegrain compatible with a hms, and soon after @ID_Heaven posted proof that the radar is indeed compatible with the hmd, using the su 27 manual.
For angles of attack below ~15degrees the approximation is generally more than fine, it’s around that value that it generally starts to become less realistic and above ~50 where it would create pretty wild results
Russian R-27 air-to-air missile (AA-10 Alamo) (military.cz)
The R-27E (Extended range series) introduced in service 1990 came in two variants the R-27RE (Alamo-C) Semi-Active Radar & R-27TE (Alamo-D) "with a more advanced version of the infrared finder, capable with helmet sight of pilot."
The R-27ET is distinguished of the two as the only one capable of interacting with the helmet sight. The R-27ER is not.
Neither is stated here:
Or here in detail:
Only IR missile targeting shows up on the sight rings in HMS. Not radar guided missiles. You must still point the nose at the target & allow it to be captured by the radar.
Regarding radar guided munitions :
If radar guided missiles are selected, Target designation in the in the HELMET mode will issue directive to the RLPK-29 radar sighting system & AFTER the target is caught by the radar sight (you must still point the nose at the target to achieve this) further aiming is carried out according to the HUD information. There is no HUD information unless you point the nose at the target.
You cannot use the HMS to shoot fake high off boresight radar missiles. All you can do is notify the radar to stand-by when radar missiles are selected & what direction the target will come from with the HMS (Opto-electronic pointing station). So that when the target does come into the radars field of view, it will immediately lock on to the target.
This is literally nothing more than an ACM mode in all fighters or a Range finder in the Kfir C.7
The radar is not swinging the dish every which way according to a pilot’s line of sight. The Radar is no longer off or in a search pattern but is standing-by for when the target enters its FoV. Only IR missile seekers follow the pilot’s line of sight. Literally stated in dude’s own source.
The OEPS-29 or 27 is an optical system (IRST). It’s a passive detection and tracking system that is completely separate from the radar nor does it operate whatsoever on radio detection and ranging. The weapons systems that cooperate directly to this system are the R60M, R73, R27T & R27ET.
As for the radar dish…
No, not because it’s outdated, but because it’s obsolete & the Soviet Union was forced to downgrade their developing 4th generation fighters with 3rd generation technology of the 1960’s.
The Soviet Union invested in OEPS because of an inability to produce the radars they actually wanted. They had all the technology to produce top on the line radars (Mig31 is evidence of that) but could not produce them en masse in the 70’s & especially during the economic decline of the Soviet–Afghan War 1979-89 which contributed to the Soviet Union’s demise.
In the development of both the Mig-29 & Su-27 the Soviet Union was forced to resort to taking Sapfir RP-23 ML Radars & modifying them to stand in for the radars they could not produce. The only thing digital was the Ts-100 digital processor that both the Mig29 9-12 & Su27S share. The Mig-29s radar dish is almost identical to the Mig-23ML & the Su-27 was made larger.
Mig-23 RP-23 Sapfir
Mig-29 N019 Rubin
Su-27 N001 Mech
These pictures are not the complete radar. They are CASSEGRAIN radars & require reflectors to operate.
The Radar reflectors are completely fixed in both the Mig-29 & Su-27 that is why there is NO FoV scan modes other than 50x10. The radar is incapable of moving beyond.
in order to direct beams, the entire reflector must move too. That is not happening in the nose of either fighters my guy.
These are the radars in their entirety. Su-27, Mig-29 & Mig-23
The ENTIRE front portion of the radar & its front plate at the tip must move to direct its beams in order to work with your ridiculous theory of radar HMS support.
That is why Cassegrain radar dishes are obsolete. You need the reflectors to operate. That is a giant radar dish you think is moving around to the speed & precision of a human’s line of sight inside of the nose of the Su-27 & Mig29.
There is literally no room for the radar to move. THAT is why there is only one search zone.
This is how they operate & there is no way in hell they are able to move as you think they can.
The plate circled in yellow is the main reflector the horn is fixed & provides the signal. The plate does move to direct signal but needs the secondary reflector in front bolded black to function. The radar can only move so much. Again, that is why there is only single 50 x 10 search in every mode.
The Radar is incapable of pointing in any direction you point your head. It is physically impossible to do so with the radar set up in the Mig-29 & Su-27. The entire front half must point with its reflectors. The radar is not a single plate nor is it capable of precise rapid beam direction like a planar ARRAY radar.
PD HMD mode is entirely fake. Only the SMT is capable in the Soviet tech tree.
Hey, someone tell this idiot. The radar can track within a ±60° range. The fact that you can only search for ±25° is completely fake. That antenna is movable lol
will you bug report it?
Again in the manual it states that the RPLK 27/29 can recibe angular positions from both the OEPS and the hmd , keep in mind that these are not isolated systems.
Again these are search patterns, it doesn’t not represent the physical limits of the radar, the only difference is that the soviets decided to have a single pattern using those parameters, a clear example in the same platform is the ACM mode which is 6ºx60º,if the search patters are the radar physical limits that would be impossible as it.
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Ummm where do you get 60 degrees? The IRST is at 60 degrees…
Do you understand that the radar has a maximum scan zone of 50 degrees. Do you understand this is true in DCS too? Do you know what a scan zone is? If you cannot exceed that in a scan, what makes you think you can exceed it in a track?
Can you explain where do you get 25 degrees?
Can you also explain why you are so emotionally triggered? You are seething with rage over this. Why? I can see how bad this is affecting you. You think you actually own any of these models or something?
You don’t. You never owned them. Your only licensed to play them. Relax, killer.
The fictional radar HMD mode exceeds both the radars’ ability to move & the IRST’s ability to see (shown in the video. You need to move the secondary reflector too. The Su-27 & Mig-29 are incapable of moving their secondary reflector.
So explain, how is the radar, the ENTIRE radar able to move??? Yes, the primary reflector moves to scan & track but cannot exceed its maximum ability to scan because its secondary reflector is static at the tip of the radar.
Are you going to attempt bring up the F-4J? Or F-4B as an example?? These radars were far more powerful, advanced & did not need secondary reflectors… They were so technologically powerful it required a literal Radar Intercept Officer to manage in the back… The F-4B’s AN/APQ-72 had a scan zone of 120 degrees and its elevation angle can be adjusted to a maximum deviation of ± 60 degrees from course…
Do you understand the massive technological differences at play verses this?
You do realize the horn that feeds the signal is not moveable either right?
50ºx10º is equal to say ±25º x ±5º
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Draw a line down the display. Say you feel its 25 degrees?
Look at the strobe that crosses the screen. I have track IR it’s a solid 50 degrees zone 50 -50. IRST is 60 -60 degrees.
Its 50 degrees off the nose at range, not third person. It appears smaller in third person. Do I need to explain why?
It does not have a 25-degree scan zone.
You withdraw further to the correct distance in 3rd person in WT and its perfect. The scan zone is 50 degrees. It literally says so & actually matches with WT compatible 3rd party computer software. You guys are on some conspiracy theory.
let me use the regular view for the radar as you clearly cant understand the rectangular version,
Here 50º and ±25º describes the same arc you’re just using a different reference
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Look at the strobe that crosses your screen that represents the actual beam scanning at the airspace. It is matching 50 -50. You switch to IRST it increases by 10 degrees.
This is literally the case as is consistent with track IR.
on the radar view the perspective is already taken into account, and it is far more accurate than eyeballing it using the strobes.
This is literally the case as is consistent with track IR. You are hyper focused on a miniature radar screen that is universally used for every vehicle with a radar in the entire game. Therefore, GJ has blessed you with the ability to see the beam travel accross the screen so you can see for yourself.
±30º
±60º
as you can see eyeballing it is far more complicated than it looks, as the camera is too far form the radar so there is a lot of distortion, it is far easier and accurate to use the radar display itself
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Everything shows fine, even at large angles
Yes, I know this. I am glad you do too. However 3rd party compatible software is showing a 50-degree scan for the radar & 60-degree for the IRST as declared in third person. Everything is consistent. I have it hooked to the game as we speak (dev server).
@Nowel I would disassociate myself from such emotional arguments ^. Lest you look silly as this individual who makes absurd claims about the game out of anger but are the only one left when they are proven undeniably false.
He’s the one who made the claim, you just explained his position. However, you are the one left answering for it. While he’s nowhere to be seen.
You do not like my technical or historical presentation on Soviet radars. That’s cool. But you are going to have a hard time overturning history & technical ability to convince me. These radars are nothing compared to Post-Soviet RuF modernization & US aircraft.
Their Cassegrain radar set ups do not actually move. the Primary Reflector Plate does & that is the only piece. The Horn & secondary sub reflector do not, they are static. They are severely limited in mobility & must rely on reflection from secondary & primary plates to direct beams in limited angles.
It is the exact equivalent of using two mirrors & a light bulb to attempt to focus direct light at moving objects. Only one can pivot. They are nothing like the F-4J.
Su-27 high AoA flight curve