Sukhoi Su-27/30/33/35/37 Flanker series & Su-34 Fullback - History, Design, Performance & Dissection (Part 1)

[Ziggy1989]

@Nowel

he argumentated that the it is “technically impossible” because it is an outdated radar and for those systems is necessary to used with planar array ones or more modern, since they have directional beam control,

The OEPS-29 or 27 is an optical system (IRST). It’s a passive detection and tracking system that is completely separate from the radar nor does it operate whatsoever on radio detection and ranging. The weapons systems that cooperate directly to this system are the R60M, R73, R27T & R27ET.

As for the radar dish…
No, not because it’s outdated, but because it’s obsolete & the Soviet Union was forced to downgrade their developing 4th generation fighters with 3rd generation technology of the 1960’s.

The Soviet Union invested in OEPS because of an inability to produce the radars they actually wanted. They had all the technology to produce top on the line radars (Mig31 is evidence of that) but could not produce them en masse in the 70’s & especially during the economic decline of the Soviet–Afghan War 1979-89 which contributed to the Soviet Union’s demise.

In the development of both the Mig-29 & Su-27 the Soviet Union was forced to resort to taking Sapfir RP-23 ML Radars & modifying them to stand in for the radars they could not produce. The only thing digital was the Ts-100 digital processor that both the Mig29 9-12 & Su27S share. The Mig-29s radar dish is almost identical to the Mig-23ML & the Su-27 was made larger.

Mig-23 RP-23 Sapfir

Mig-29 N019 Rubin

Su-27 N001 Mech

These pictures are not the complete radar. They are CASSEGRAIN radars & require reflectors to operate.

The Radar reflectors are completely fixed in both the Mig-29 & Su-27 that is why there is NO FoV scan modes other than 50x10. The radar is incapable of moving beyond.

in order to direct beams, the entire reflector must move too. That is not happening in the nose of either fighters my guy.

These are the radars in their entirety. Su-27, Mig-29 & Mig-23

The ENTIRE front portion of the radar & its front plate at the tip must move to direct its beams in order to work with your ridiculous theory of radar HMS support.

That is why Cassegrain radar dishes are obsolete. You need the reflectors to operate. That is a giant radar dish you think is moving around to the speed & precision of a human’s line of sight inside of the nose of the Su-27 & Mig29.
There is literally no room for the radar to move. THAT is why there is only one search zone.

This is how they operate & there is no way in hell they are able to move as you think they can.

The plate circled in yellow is the main reflector the horn is fixed & provides the signal. The plate does move to direct signal but needs the secondary reflector in front bolded black to function. The radar can only move so much. Again, that is why there is only single 50 x 10 search in every mode.

The Radar is incapable of pointing in any direction you point your head. It is physically impossible to do so with the radar set up in the Mig-29 & Su-27. The entire front half must point with its reflectors. The radar is not a single plate nor is it capable of precise rapid beam direction like a planar ARRAY radar.

PD HMD mode is entirely fake. Only the SMT is capable in the Soviet tech tree.

[konngou0224-psn]

Hey, someone tell this idiot. The radar can track within a ±60° range. The fact that you can only search for ±25° is completely fake. That antenna is movable lol

[Catnip007]

will you bug report it?

[Nowel]

@Ziggy1989

The OEPS-29 or 27 is an optical system (IRST). It’s a passive detection and tracking system that is completely separate from the radar nor does it operate whatsoever on radio detection and ranging. The weapons systems that cooperate directly to this system are the R60M, R73, R27T & R27ET.

Again in the manual it states that the RPLK 27/29 can recibe angular positions from both the OEPS and the hmd , keep in mind that these are not isolated systems.

@Ziggy1989

Again, that is why there is only single 50 x 10 search in every mode.

Again these are search patterns, it doesn’t not represent the physical limits of the radar, the only difference is that the soviets decided to have a single pattern using those parameters, a clear example in the same platform is the ACM mode which is 6ºx60º,if the search patters are the radar physical limits that would be impossible as it.

[Ziggy1989]

Ummm where do you get 60 degrees? The IRST is at 60 degrees…

Do you understand that the radar has a maximum scan zone of 50 degrees. Do you understand this is true in DCS too? Do you know what a scan zone is? If you cannot exceed that in a scan, what makes you think you can exceed it in a track?

Can you explain where do you get 25 degrees?

Can you also explain why you are so emotionally triggered? You are seething with rage over this. Why? I can see how bad this is affecting you. You think you actually own any of these models or something?

You don’t. You never owned them. Your only licensed to play them. Relax, killer.

50 degree scan sector, 60 degree IRST, magical PD HMD high offboresight beyond both.

The fictional radar HMD mode exceeds both the radars’ ability to move & the IRST’s ability to see (shown in the video. You need to move the secondary reflector too. The Su-27 & Mig-29 are incapable of moving their secondary reflector.

So explain, how is the radar, the ENTIRE radar able to move??? Yes, the primary reflector moves to scan & track but cannot exceed its maximum ability to scan because its secondary reflector is static at the tip of the radar.

Are you going to attempt bring up the F-4J? Or F-4B as an example?? These radars were far more powerful, advanced & did not need secondary reflectors… They were so technologically powerful it required a literal Radar Intercept Officer to manage in the back… The F-4B’s AN/APQ-72 had a scan zone of 120 degrees and its elevation angle can be adjusted to a maximum deviation of ± 60 degrees from course…

Do you understand the massive technological differences at play verses this?
You do realize the horn that feeds the signal is not moveable either right?

[Nowel]

@Ziggy1989

Can you explain where do you get 25 degrees?

50ºx10º is equal to say ±25º x ±5º

[Ziggy1989]

Draw a line down the display. Say you feel its 25 degrees?

Look at the strobe that crosses the screen. I have track IR it’s a solid 50 degrees zone 50 -50. IRST is 60 -60 degrees.

Its 50 degrees off the nose at range, not third person. It appears smaller in third person. Do I need to explain why?

It does not have a 25-degree scan zone.

You withdraw further to the correct distance in 3rd person in WT and its perfect. The scan zone is 50 degrees. It literally says so & actually matches with WT compatible 3rd party computer software. You guys are on some conspiracy theory.

[Nowel]

let me use the regular view for the radar as you clearly cant understand the rectangular version,

Here 50º and ±25º describes the same arc you’re just using a different reference

[Ziggy1989]

Look at the strobe that crosses your screen that represents the actual beam scanning at the airspace. It is matching 50 -50. You switch to IRST it increases by 10 degrees.

This is literally the case as is consistent with track IR.

[Nowel]

on the radar view the perspective is already taken into account, and it is far more accurate than eyeballing it using the strobes.

[Ziggy1989]

This is literally the case as is consistent with track IR. You are hyper focused on a miniature radar screen that is universally used for every vehicle with a radar in the entire game. Therefore, GJ has blessed you with the ability to see the beam travel accross the screen so you can see for yourself.

[Nowel]

±30º

±60º

as you can see eyeballing it is far more complicated than it looks, as the camera is too far form the radar so there is a lot of distortion, it is far easier and accurate to use the radar display itself

[BBCRF]

Everything shows fine, even at large angles

[Ziggy1989]

@Nowel

as you can see eyeballing it is far more complicated than it looks, as the camera is too far form the radar so there is a lot of distortion, it is far easier and accurate to use the radar display itself

Yes, I know this. I am glad you do too. However 3rd party compatible software is showing a 50-degree scan for the radar & 60-degree for the IRST as declared in third person. Everything is consistent. I have it hooked to the game as we speak (dev server).

@konngou0224

Hey, someone tell this idiot. The radar can track within a ±60° range. The fact that you can only search for ±25° is completely fake. That antenna is movable lol

@Nowel I would disassociate myself from such emotional arguments ^. Lest you look silly as this individual who makes absurd claims about the game out of anger but are the only one left when they are proven undeniably false.

He’s the one who made the claim, you just explained his position. However, you are the one left answering for it. While he’s nowhere to be seen.

You do not like my technical or historical presentation on Soviet radars. That’s cool. But you are going to have a hard time overturning history & technical ability to convince me. These radars are nothing compared to Post-Soviet RuF modernization & US aircraft.
Their Cassegrain radar set ups do not actually move. the Primary Reflector Plate does & that is the only piece. The Horn & secondary sub reflector do not, they are static. They are severely limited in mobility & must rely on reflection from secondary & primary plates to direct beams in limited angles.

It is the exact equivalent of using two mirrors & a light bulb to attempt to focus direct light at moving objects. Only one can pivot. They are nothing like the F-4J.

[Burevestnik503]

Su-27 high AoA flight curve

[Burevestnik503]

It has little to do with high AoA capabilities.
The standard Su-27 has a baffle in the air intake to block foreign objects. When the aircraft taxis, the baffle rises. The auxiliary air intakes on both sides and the bottom of the air intake are opened. The Su-27SM either cancels the baffle or only takes in air through the auxiliary air intakes on the side.
It is worth mentioning that the auxiliary air intake design was retained in the early PAK FA prototype.

[Burevestnik503]

Вероятно, новые Су-27СМ изготовлены на основе остававшегося на КнААПО производственного задела по планерам самолетов Су-27СК от приостановленного лицензионного контракта с КНР. При этом машины оснащены новыми двигателями АЛ-31Ф-М1 (АЛ-31Ф серии 42) производства ММПП «Салют», отличающимися повышенной до 13 500 кгс тягой и увеличенным ресурсом, и новыми комплексами оборудования и вооружения – даже более совершенными, чем применяемые на поставлявшихся до сих пор модернизированных Су-27СМ.
Как рассказал в интервью нашему журналу минувшей осенью генеральный директор ОАО «НИИП им. В.В. Тихомирова» Юрий Белый, «в конце сентября состоялся первый успешный пуск с поражением цели модернизированной ракетой с борта опытного самолета Су-27СМ3. Для применения этой ракеты на повышенных дальностях модернизированы антенна, передатчик и канал передачи данных радиокоррекции штатной РЛС самолета. Модернизированный Су-27СМ3 передан на государственные испытания». По всей видимости, новые истребители выпущены как раз в таком варианте. Одновременно с доработками радиолокационного прицельного комплекса и введения в состав вооружения модернизированных ракет средней дальности усовершенствовано информационно-управляющее поле кабины летчика – она стала полностью «стеклянной».

http://take-off.ru/news/107-news-1-2-2011/561-su-27sm3-02-2011

According to this 2011 report, the first Su-27SM with the AL-31FM1 engine was delivered in 2011. Meanwhile, the Su-27SM3 entered the state acceptance phase. I worry that the gaijin will try to split the Su-27SM into two fighters - just like they did with the MiG-29G 9.12; or skip the Su-27SM with the AL-31FM1 and release the Su-27SM3 directly.

[Ziggy1989]

That is a vortex generator. 100%. It has everything to do with alpha flight. I am not talking about the baffle.

It has no bearing on the intake as you can see on the inside walls of the intake.

[Burevestnik503]

В ходе испытаний в состав ОЭПС-27 была введена нашлемная система целеуказания (НСЦ) “Щель-ЗУМ”. Эта аппаратура, разработанная на киевском заводе “Арсенал” (главный конструктор А.К.Михайлик), включала нашлемное визирное устройство и блок оптической локации со сканерным устройством определения угла поворота головы летчика. НСЦ позволяла измерять координаты линии визирования при визуальном слежении за целью летчиком в зоне +60" по азимуту и от -15╟ до +60╟ по углу места при скорости линии визирования до 20╟/с, а также осуществлять наведение на цель зоны автоматического захвата ОЛС с одновременной передачей координат линии визирования цели в БРЛС и головки самонаведения ракет. Совместное использование НСЦ и ОЛС позволяло в ближнем маневренном бою сократить время прицеливания, осуществлять быстрый захват цели, обеспечивать целеуказание головкам самонаведения ракет до захода цели в конус возможных углов захвата цели головкой и тем самым осуществлять пуск ракет при максимально допустимых углах.

The HMD system directly controls the IRST, which in turn controls the radar… The OEPS-27 is integrated. This has nothing to do with whether the antenna can rotate.

[Burevestnik503]

I see what you mean.
But it is also not a tool for increasing lift at high angles of attack. This is the azimuth antenna of the SPO-15 Берёза system.