The issue is (I mentioned this before too) that battleships not being able to do anything against submarines - that’s precisely the problem for me. It’s not fun to be killed by something that you can’t see, and you couldn’t have done anything about even if you could see them. Worth noting that many cruisers and even destroyers in this game don’t have anti-submarine equipment.
So, it would be balanced by teamwork, if I’m reading you correctly. It’s an admirable goal, but that doesn’t really work, since actual teamwork is quite rare in this game.
well, but what can a destroyer/cruiser do against battleship? its death is certain, at best it will manage to knock some crew off and die. Not fun fighting something there is no counter against at all!
yes, its rare, but not unheard off, if you are so scared of submarines you can just follow and cover somebody able to take them out.
now here you are correct, im not really aware what ships even have anti sub equipment, but im sure should submarines be added, we would see more of such ships being added into game with them.
At least you can see the battleship, and try to avoid. Battleship can’t do that against a sub, unless they’re relying in teammates to detect subs.
And if the current gameplay doesn’t work, development should focus on fixing that, not on introducing yet another difficult balancing element, like subs.
Yeah. Just like how fighters should cover bombers and tankers should stay close to SPAA if they are attacked by planes. That happens a lot and is always very fun, right? (sarcasm ofc)
Which would be useless in the current environment anyway, like I said above.
its gaijin entertainment we are dealing here with, you forgot?
but i agree with you on that, though, you will hardly achieve anything
fighters would be escorting bombers all of the time if they actually made fair profit from it, and SPAA’s are often unreliable because they are piloted by noobs, who camp with it on spawn (not to forget that there are many who will die to aircraft themself, so they could use some sort of buff)
cmon, teamplay is not present because environment is such and its nohting that couldnt be changed easily… should they spend a minute on fixing the issue.
More teamplay is always good. But subs and ASW can’t completely depend on it(which is going to be very difficult, if not impossible), if and when they are introduced. This goes for pretty much everything in the game. You just can’t introduce something that depends solely or highly on teamwork, in an MMO with random matches.
I think you’re wrong.
Battleships can do something against subs. The “thing” is maneuvering - even done by BB on big maps - especially when uses hydroplanes as reconnaissance.
Look what BB “battles” looks like now: BBs are sitting behind rocks with stop engines and shot & shot.
Secondly - DDs, even PT-boats may cooperate with BB (as second ship in slot) to protect them and hunt DD instead cap points or die.
The ingame name of this weapon, and the one of the currently unused 75mm/50 Mle.1927 historically employed by Aigle-classe destroyers like Vautour, had been in flux for a time after the release of update " La Royale ", including being swapped and mixing the measurements in their terminology. They’ve now stabilized the names - though for the time being it 's still the submarine variant gun being used by the ship rather than the surface ship one.
Do not misunderstand. There is not a lack of teamwork in war thunder because teamwork is just not in human nature; there is a lack of teamwork in war thunder because the game is designed in a way that discourages teamwork.
There are games with ‘random matches’ matchmaking where the players are encouraged and actively participate in teamwork.
Personally, I think there’s room for submarines in naval. It would add new gameplay opportunities such as using sensors to triangulate a submarines position, a frigate, patrol boat, or sub chaser could get points for a successful identification similar to how scouting works in ground battles. Vessels or aircraft with depth charges could then fly over the scouted area and drop depth charges. Similarly, submarine players would have to play smart to avoid getting detected by the passive sonars of surface ships. Dipping over and under thermal layers and ducts in an attempt to remain as hidden as possible.
And this is all without considering early to mid cold war technology. The whitby class HMS Blackpool that we have in game already has MK.20 “Bidder” torpedos, a passive seeker torpedo equipped with both surface vessels and submarines. Aircraft like the shackelton could also assist in the destruction of submarines. If we want to get ahead of ourselves we could have helicopters launched from the rear of destroyers, equipped with dipping sonars to more quickly acquire an enemy submarine. The amount of gameplay options and playstyles introduced by the addition of submarines has a significant depth to them.
People say that adding submarines would be like adding drones, a meta disrupting mistake that “fixed” the “CAS problem” by making it more accessible, albeit in a limited capacity. I personally disagree, drones are a relatively modern addition to combat, submarines are almost as old as most of the ships we have in game now, and alot of the ships in game have options to counter submarines. Even ships in the bluewater tree have ASW capabilities.
At the very least, it would give the bots a harder time. The bot makers would have to program in things like aiming depth charges, manoeuvring, deploying decoys, deploying and flying ASW aircraft, etc. Or otherwise become easy prey for a submarine.
I don’t see the harm in testing them more often, at least. I wouldn’t mind if they were simply added to the game but not allowed in matchmaking modes. Minimally, I just want to be able to screw around with subs in this game. Custom matches could be fun. There could be a place for them in Enduring Confrontation.
I’d bet they already have them modeled too and just debate internally about implementation. I say just add everything you have modeled, Gaijin. And as details, bugs, and balance is worked out, you can decide when vehicles are and are not allowed in matchmaking.
I’d agree with the same way that Heli PvP was added as a separate event to at least have a CBT with your regular Star Event to get access to the sub tree, though with fixed matchmaking or otherwise using a predesigned lineup to allow for the dev’s to iterate as needed.
The biggest question with subs I think that subs would present is how far hydrophones or active sonar is going to need propagate without making things unfair. will be a important balance to strike, as without guided torpedoes it shouldn’t be too hard to dodge a spread if they are detected in time which leaves the limited count and lengthy travel requirements for restocking them a problem.
and further how a surface combatant spotting a sub / is spotted by a sub and how it propagates will work.
Personally, if Gaijin accurately models them and their performance, subs honestly aren’t a very big deal as people seem to think they are. Submarines are DEVASTATING… to an unaware, and off guard opponent. They are also VERY weak to depth charges, very slow under the water, must surface if any breach is made, lest it sinks, which it is extremely prone to do, as it is designed to be able to easily go under the water, while ships are not. Torpedoes aren’t very effective unless you are close to an opponent, in which case they will have to stay still if you want to hit them with any consistency, and if a ship does indeed move, you will hardly have any chance of lining up with its new trajectory, as your torpedoes are only forward facing, they aren’t zippy like torpedo boats, which are far more likely to get the jump on you if you’re in a close quarters area than a sub is going to get on you if you’re in big open waters. All in all, subs will likely have such a little impact on the game, that they might as well not be added instead of not being added because they would ruin naval.
Agreed. When a ship is fully aware of the presence of a sub, especially if that ship is a destroyer, sub chaser, etc., usually the surface ship has the upper hand.
As spotting goes, the game’s water is clear enough to see the keel of some ships. So it may be that if a sub were in the water, it may be visible at certain depths, in certain waters on certain maps in certain weather. You could also add bubbles on the surface behind the sub if it’s running near full power while under.
As sensors go, not all ships will have them, have good or bad ones, etc.
Different sub classes have different protections.
I think the variables and cat and mouse could be very cool.
