the problem is tornado is faster about 550kmh and so is eveything else MIG 23 ML 11.3 and what about the premium tornado at 11.3 with more countermessures and more speed su24M is slower than a su22 with 6 R60ms at 11.0 on maps that you get a airspawn you dont even spawn supersonic but every other plane dose except the su25 and su39 the 10.3 f111F can dun you down the F4E and the F4C can catch you. i can keep going but the point is you cant turn fight you cant boom and zoom since everything is faster you cant outclimb anything you cant climb becuse then you get r24red or aim7F and you cant bomb becuse everyone else reaches the bases before you
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and?
Its a ground attacker. It sucks in ARB, they all do. Nothing is going to change much.
10.7 to me basically means its nearly the same BR as Jaguar GR1A with only 2x Aim-9Gs. If its 10.7 then the Jaguar GR1A should get its missing Aim-9Ls and move to 10.7.
Su-22M3 is 11.3
Su-17M4 is 11.3
Su-17M2 (with only R-60s) is 10.7
So…
And the F-4s and Mig-23s are faster than the Tornado quite notably so.
Yes, 3x Tornado IDS are at 11.3. (where they should all be to be honest)
Tornados have 56x LCM flares and and a lot of chaff, the Su-24 has 96 LCMs. So vs IR threats which I personally find some of the most common threats at that BR (especially as MP still exists and the F-14s have moved up) tenatively gives the Su-24 more CMs than the Tornado IDS.
Tornados dont, I didnt think anyone did actually.
Thats because its an Su-24. Why are you trying to dogfight in it? I dont complain the Tornado Gr1 stands 0 chance vs basically anything in A2A combat because its not meant for that. Its meant for dropping bombs on targets, which it rarely can do because the F-4s get all the bases.
My advice, play the Su-24 in Air Sim. Only gamemode that ground attackers are good/usable.
You are referring specifically to Air RB based upon your title right? and not Air Sim.
They are 11.3 in ARB and 11.0 in ASB
Different factors affect an aircrafts performance in Air Sim and so not always quite as clean cut as loadout + Speed
Mitsubishi F-1 and Mirage IIIC/CJ, Mirage 5F, Nesher, F-8E(FN).
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11.3 is quite favorable as it gets FAR more downtiers and gets to avoid 12.0 (or even 12.7) more often than its western equivilants. (F-111C, Tornado)
I do not have it spaded yet but it feels fine. Still fast enough to avoid slower planes, weapons still decent, good amount of CMs. For an attacker, its not bad.
The following aircraft are 10.0+ and lack flares:
F-4C
F-8E (FR)
Mirage IIIC
Mirage 5F
SPS-K (when bringing cannon)
F-105D
F-4F early
F-104J
F-104G (China)
Shahak
Nesher
J35D
F-1
Expanding this list to include 9.7s would triple it.
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F-1 forgotten yet again
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Tornado pilot belike
LMAO!!
Wasn’t the A-10C like 11.0 ??
yeah makes sense now i really didnt do much resurche i gusse its just in a shitty spot and cant move it anywhere else or its going to dominate
no it was always 11.7
Not strictly 10.0 but:
F-4C Phantom
F-105D (chaffs as an option)
F-104J
F-1
F-8E(FN)
Mirage IIIC
Mirage 5F
J35D
Shahak
Nesher
yeah it should go to 12.0
NAH 13.7 take it or leave it
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He has a point about base bombers that lacks speed. This is why I think AA capabilities of base bombers should probably be at the bottom of the “important” list when it comes to ARB.
From my experience playing them in ARB, I think speed should be by far the most important metric in determining their BR. Yes, you can have the fanciest bomb loads and AA weapons, but if you get beaten to the base your only chance of getting some RP is by basically fighting superior aircraft in their game, which will get your ass clapped more often than not.
Can’t even remember how many times I’ve been beaten to the base(s) by premium Tornados and was left practically useless flying a bus with wings.
We either need more bases or stronger bases, because currently base bombers that are on the slower end at their BR are often not worth playing.
This thing receiving R-60MKs instead of just receiving BR drop so it can actually not be last to the bases is criminal. Six uses of CMs certainly don’t help it’s case either.
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I agree. Though my experience of playing the tornado Gr1 in ARB is that I rarely get bases because of the F4s. It’s not an Su24 exclusive issue.
I think rather than trying to fight for Su24, tornado, jaguar, f-111, su17/22 etc etc buffs that might upset the balance, especially in a full downtier, that instead we should be fighting for ARB improvements or an RB EC gamemode.
SIM has none of these issues, tornado is really good usually
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Yeah it’s an never ending circle and this problem can’t be solved by just BR balancing, unless we get much more available BR steps than we do now, which isn’t likely to happen anytime soon.
I agree on that, making changes to ARB to help out all base bombers is better and probably easier to do than fiddle with BRs of dozens of aircraft.
f-111f 11.7 so i dont see a problem
F111f is way faster than the su 24m but then again this issue is way more complex than I initially thought so yeah