also it would be nice if they add Khod FLIR pod
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Of course not but the ER is an incredibly strong missile regardless of aircraft capabilities, and the MiG-29 isnt as good at ground strike as the Su-39 either.
I think at least Su-39 sell better in gaijin market
So the best way is add Su-25TM in tech tree under Su-25T at rank VIII because copypaste of Su-39 but Air-to-Air Missile full option, and take ARM Kh-58E & Kh-31P
Su39 can’t have any of this things:
- thin air
- altitude
- high speed
Any missile mounted on Su-39 would use its own potential energy, instead of using those 1.2.3.
F16 is a versatile fighter/attacker, by having a combination of these it does not mean that it would be better as a fighter but it just can perform multiple roles.
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The imparted deltaV of the R-27ER is 33% higher than its next competitor, the AIM-7F/M and almost 50% higher than the SuperTEMP, while the closing speed of 2 ~M1.0 jets is ~600m/s. Even at low altitude and fired from transonic speeds, the pK% of the R-27ER is EXTREMLY high within 10km. The Su-39 being subsonic is largely irrelevant to this missile, as its almost always fired sub 10km anyways, where the time to target is so low that the subsonic speed of the Su-39 would be barely noticeable to the missile performance.
You clearly have a poor understanding, or are just pretending to be willfully ignorant of just how powerful this would make the Su-39, PARTICULARLY since it can carry so much ordinance and is borderline immune to IR missiles with its CM suite.
Providing any of the missiles you suggested because it “could” carry them would be a horrible balance decision and would make the strongest mixed attacker aircraft in-game be a premium.
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I ALSO forgot to add that the R-27ER imparts that deltaV much quicker than the AIM-7F/M (9 seconds vs 16.5 seconds) meaning that its even BETTER at sub 10km head-on shots, which is one of the reasons why this missile is so oppressive.
I knnow that R27ER is op, that would make su39 as a flying truck with 2x good missiles (like A10 early).
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The AIM-9L isn’t that good in comparison.
All-Aspect seeker comparison
Rear-Aspect comparison
The thing to note here us that the volumes are computed using Spherical Sectors, so a larger gimbal is much more valuable than extended lock on range, which is especially important in a dogfight. It Also doesn’t take kinematic performance, the missile actually being able to complete the intercept, and the increased lock on range against an A/B target.
The A-10’s issue is that while it gets a questionably better self defense load, the kinematics of the aircraft are far worse, and as such often cannot escape expected threats and so must fight where an Su-25 can or at least has a much better chance of being able to extend away, the IRCM and large Flare / Countermeasure count also helps.
A better comparison would be made with A-7K at this point which obviously shows up the issues with the -9L and the A-7 in general considering that even with the All-Aspect missiles its not a common sight and only sits at 11.0.
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I don’t really see a issue with the implementation of R-27’s in-game, there shouldn’t be an excuse for a vehicle suffering this badly to get handicapped.
I have to strongly disagree and this is simply because you can’t give one aircraft everything and ignore the other, and this is especially bad when they’re IDENTICAL aircrafts.
And what would you want to be added to fix the horrendous performance of the SU-39? I don’t see the SU-39 getting the R-73E and simply because they aren’t ready, the R-77 is obviously a no-go and the R-27ER is really the only main option left.
Yet again I’ll repeat what multiple people have told you, the SU-39 is a horrible platform without a doubt and wouldn’t manage to gain the altitude needed to get the optimal range of the R-27ER. Highest battle rating I see this thing in with the R-27ER is 11.7 and it’s not like you’re going to use the R-27ER for CAS or anything?
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You don’t NEED optimal range. Almost nobody BVR’s with the R-27ER because in that role its simply outclassed by the AIM-54 which is currently ubiquitous at top tier. Its used sub 10km, usually close to the deck, EXACTLY in the situations the Su-39 finds itself vs enemy air threats. The fact it can’t reach “optimal” ranges because its fired from a Su-39 is irrelevant.
The aircraft is already a potent ground attacker, it doesn’t need to ALSO be equipped with the best air to air missiles in-game. It would be bad for balance and it would be bad in the context that this is a purchasable premium as well.
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To add to that, there’s like 2(?) 11.3 aircrafts currently with AIM-7F’s? Everything else at that BR has even worse missiles for head-on, mainly AIM-7-E2’s, which would get OBLITERATED by R-27ER’s. nvm a downtier vs jets that don’t even have all aspect missiles, or that have things like AIM-7D and AIM-9E’s
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11.7 would be the absolute minimum they could put the R-27ER at, and even then it doesn’t take into account the fact that that Su-39 is otherwise a fantastic strike aircraft.
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Lets do some basic math to help make the point. in the absence of jumping in game and testing this
as per the following topic on the old Forum
and the relevant excerpt is reproduced below for posterity
Missile AIM-7F R-24R R-27R R-27ER ΣΔV, m/sec 950 735 720 1190 Weight, kg 231 244 253 350 Power-to-weight ratio, kg*p/kg 84 63 62 94 Guidance time, sec 75 45 60 60 Front aspect launch range (Vl=Vt=1M), km 43 33 35 44 Front aspect launch range (Vl=Vt=2M, N+10 km), km 94 48 74 85 Maximal transversal acceleration, G 25 25 30 30 Сomparison chart of the parameters of R-24R, R-27R, R-27ER and AIM7F missiles
As can be seen above the AIM-7F covers 43 km in 75 seconds, which gives an average speed of 573m/s this doesn’t account for the motor & drag at all so understates the actual performance significantly as missiles are able to glide a long way. and so would take approximately 17.4 seconds to cover the supposed 10km
The R-27 covers 35km in 60 seconds which gives an average speed of 583m/s taking 17.1 seconds to go 10 km.
And the R-27ER covers 43km in 60 seconds and travels with an average speed of 716m/s results in it taking only 13.9 seconds to cover 10km
Looking at the datamines for the burn times for the motors.
The Motor for the AIM-7F burns for a total of 15.5 seconds of it’s 75 second life (~20%)
The R-27’s motor burns for 6 seconds of the 60 seconds it guides.(10%)
and the R-27ER burns for 9 seconds total or 15% of its time of flight
War Thunder likes to implement equipment for “realism” or “historical accuracy” and a example of this is anti-ship missiles on the Marine IDS. You could say the same for many things like anti-ship missiles but the case of the SU-39 is objectively much worse.
It appears as like you haven’t played a single game in the SU-39 as it’s currently unplayable in air realistic and some would say “well it’s a ground attacker” and it is indeed one, but it’s not a normal ground attacker you’d imagine.
The SU-39 was made with the idea of diversity yet this is currently lacked in War Thunder, the simplest way to implement this is by adding the R-27ER or the R-73E (which isn’t ready) and the main reason this wouldn’t be busted is the obvious fact that the SU-39 itself is a horrible platform unlike the MiG-29 or F-14B.
And lets say the R-27ER is indeed to overpowered to be added to the SU-39, then what will be added to fill in the void? We aren’t going to get the R-73 or R-77, it can’t get moved down because of its CAS potential and it can’t stay the same because it’s horrible vehicle currently as a whole then what can fix this vehicle?
Lets have a look at other CAS vehicle performance of other vehicle at its BR.
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Gaijin likes to RESTRICT equipment for game balance even more! Hence why the Su-39 DIDN’T get these weapons. You seriously think gaijin didn’t give it these weapons because they didn’t know it could use them?
The Kormoran 1’s on the IDS were added as a gimmick on an event vehicle, and nobody even uses them because not only are they utterly worthless in anything but sim and custom battles, but even in the modes you can use them, they dont kill ships because theyre poorly modelled. Not a super great argument for “realism” there. The IDS also operated AGM-88 HARM’s and THOSE aren’t in-game either… Weird, its almost like weapons as integrated for balancing purposes more than just pure “realism”…
A bunch of NATO fighters in-game are missing like 90% of the ordinance, both anti air and anti ground, that they used IRL. All for the sake of balance (or maybe in some cases cuz Gaijin ran out of modification slots lol)
There is no “void” on the Su-39, its a premium ground attacker, and does that job in WT just fine. CAS jets always get weird BR’s because of their FM and strike potential, that’ll stay the same until gamemode dependant BR’s are implemented.
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And the major difference between those NATO vehicles missing “90% of their weapons” and the SU-39 is that the SU-39 is dog sh** whilst those things like the Mirage 2000D is actually somewhat competent.
Lets compare my experience with the Harrier GR.7 and Tornado GR.1 to the SU-39. I’ve found myself dominating in air realistic in the Harrier GR.7 (a Strike Aircraft like the SU-39) but that’s clearly not a issue isn’t it? What about the Tornado GR.1 in air? It’s meh I won’t lie but I’ve had a MUCH MUCH better experience in that than in the SU-39.
Do you know why I’ve been having these issues in the SU-39 compared to the Harrier GR.7 or the Tornado GR.1? The Harrier GR.7 lacks speed but has good manoeuvrability and good missiles, the Tornado GR.1 has lacks manoeuvrability but has good speed and good missiles. And lastly the SU-39 has bad speed, bad missiles can’t turn for sh**.
I’d also like to mention some people unlike me don’t have ground toptier and purchase the SU-39 for grinding the air technology tree but simply can’t because their favourite jet can’t even play its own game mode.
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It gets R-60M , that literaly are the best russian IR short range missles, dont complain about those. If you would have wanted an aircraft to grind the air tree there is the Mig-23Ml , a fighter designed for air combat, the main purpose of the SU-39 in war thunder is Air to Ground, you cant have everything.
On top of it it gets IR missle protection, that already can save you a lot of trouble since people will be forced to use cannons if they dont have radar missles, which plenty of aircraft dont have good ones.
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