Definitely 13.0
If the FA2 is 13.0, then the Mig-21 is also at least 13.0
The R-77s still have their ridiculous amount of drag and not to mention the Bisons limited countermeasures and limited amount of total missiles for air targets.
I don’t see this being more capable than the IRIAF F-14A which has the best BVR ARH missiles at 12.7 whilst still having a healthy amount of missiles.
The Iranian F-14A is still an F-14A, it has rear-aspect only IR missiles and a really bad RWR. Also just as limited on CMs
Mig-21 BISON has a better radar, HMD and R-73s
I have the FA.2 spaded with a talisman and I can see it sitting at 12.7 without being overpowered, it has a significantly worse FM than the AV-8B+.
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Probably needs to be, especially with the ICE going down, but id prefer to see the FA2 buffed appropriately first than making compression worse
Casual plug
Mig-21 BISON has a better radar, HMD and R-73s
I’d agree if it wasn’t for it’s limited pylons, the IRIAF F-14A can carry 8 missiles whilst 4 of them being the ludicrous Fakour-90s and 2 being the R-27R1s.
The Bison only has 4 pylons for air to air missiles and you’d have to replace your R-73Es with R-77s if you want to carry all 4 of them.
The Bison also has a significantly worse FM, and the radar doesn’t like to lock onto things AT ALL.
Even with the overhaul the biggest issue - aka the FM - would still be prevalent. And the real question is would this even be implemented?
The ZTZ99A has been plagued by issues upon issues which are major ones at that like entirely incorrect vehicle height and models yet it took beyond too long to fix.
FA2 with better radar and 380 CMs vs AV-8B+ with IR, guns and better FM is reasonably fair. I dont necessarily have any major complaints about the FM and whether its 12.7 or 13.0 it will suck. It sucks at 10.7 on the FRS1e. So Im not frettting about that attibute, it is what it is and you have to play to its other strengths.
But things like the CMs barely working hurts it far more imo
(and the FM isnt too bad, FRS1s did kick the arse of F-5Es and F-15As IRL, so fixing the other things would certainly enable that to be better in game)
Yeah, one of the biggest pains besides the RWR and FM was countermeasures for me on the FA.2, there was many instances when AIM-9Ls ignores my BOL CMs and went straight into my rear end.
RWR is straight placeholder curerntly, god knows when that will be fixed.
CMs…
BOL should be modeled as Large calibre flares with reduced burn time (or better yet, not as flares but as chaff with an IR signature) and standard calibre chaff.
But instead is modeled to be 1/4 the strength of regular flares (with reudced burn time) and 1/4 the strength of regular chaff
Combine with the temp issues of all harriers and i’ve had Aim-9Es ignore 20 flares before in the FRS1.
FM… Whilst I personally think something isnt totally right with it, according to the manuals, its as good as it can be modeled. So nothing really can be done there.
Other buffs would include buffs to the radar though, like 36km ACM mode would be lovely.
RWR is straight placeholder curerntly
I heard somewhere that the RWR on the FA.2 should be capable of identifying aircraft and I’m pretty sure this was acknowledged somewhere in a bug report.
I like said before, my biggest three issues were FM, BOL CMs and RWR and if this is true then I’m down to only two.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/pO6gziFqmVjv
Yep, FRS1 as well
Its all on this thread
people really want to send the 21bis airframe even higher and ensure it meets even more advanced aircraft like the f15c’s, j10’s, etc in exchange for 4 arhs that have about as much ingame range as the r27r they’d be replacing and are even easier to defeat in terms of notching and chaffing.
leave it where it is personally, any new weapon additions would only make it worse off in overall effectiveness, while also making it a much less enjoyable aircraft to fly
Yep. Farkours are MUCH better than R-77s. I don’t know why people have this knee-jerk reaction that R77s instantly means 13.3.
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Just no, I have the J-8F which is what the Bison would be but instead of having the inferior R-77s it has the PL-12s which are far better. Even though it sits at 13.0 with a FM similar to the Bis it performs incredibly well but everyone’s prefers to neglect this.
Everyone likes to overestimate vehicles like the F-117 or when AMRAAMs were introduced, the addition of the R-77s won’t kill the Bison neither will it make it broken but more historical to real life.
Vehicles like the IRIAF F-14A are far better vehicles compared to the R-77 armed Bison, more and superior missiles and a significantly better FM, the Bison could easily sit at 12.7 whilst still being entirely balanced - and don’t BS me about its RWR, all you need is two braincells at least to know when to go defensive.
I also have the J8F and the addition of the PL12 put it in a far worse position than it was previously and limits it’s playstyle far more due to the competition it now faces. The 2 PL12’s, while good missiles, are nowhere near enough to compensate for the rest of it’s shortcomings in an average 13.7 air rb match, and it’s current state doesn’t hold a candle to what it was before. This would would similarly occur to the bison if it gets put in the full arh br bracket, except on an even more noticeable scale due to the bison being worse or equal to the J8F in multiple regards, and the similar problem with the r77’s lack of range compared to the top half of arhs such as the amraam, aam4, and pl12.
Overtiered airframes due to missiles at top tier are generally disliked by the playerbase (see F4F ice) and I fully expect the upcoming ja37d’s to receive the same reaction once it’s on the live server once people realize they don’t enjoy flying a worse F4F ice
I’d rather not have what is currently an extremely enjoyable plane be another victim of this overtiering for better missiles like what happened to the j8f, except now I paid 75$ for it
The bison RWR is also quite good, it is the massive speedbleed of the airframe when notching or going cold and limited amount of cms compared to most if not all arh jets that limits it on the defensive
But that’s all my subjective 2 cents on the matter, I have nothing more to say beyond if they added a seperate bison with r77’s (Rename the current one to Sokol and the new one to HAL) or added variable br loadouts I would be in support, but with the game and the plane’s current form I just can’t support it
I will be awaiting the potential arrival of the mig-21-93 and mig-23-98 to see what they do if this situation pops up again and how the planes perform as a result, which I am sure it will
By your logic they shouldn’t even added missiles in warthunder so that everyone would have been at the same br fighting close quarters, but that’s boring, i used to play the J8F before and After It received the pl12s and, yes my KD has worsened, but my play style has become more diversified and now the meta has changed even at 12.3 you can encounter fox3s on 4th gen and 3rd gen airframes.
The rootproblem Is the overall b.r. compression that this game has and this has to be fixed, not by removing missiles from planes or nerfing Flight models, but by changing b.r.s.
Battle ratings should be used for balancing planes not the removal of their capabilities, like the F15E engines nerf, Su27 and mig29 FM nerfs, or removal of fox3s from planes like the F16A ADF or MLU, R73 form the 29s, because for me that’s a job half done a lazy fix, that just makes this game arcadier and unrealistic while they stillmark their game as the most relaistic.
They should add Fox3s to the Bison but only when the max br ceiling is increased.
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https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/ATQvpwBhuEPG
Report about r-77.
Push “same problem” if you want this
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I hope this is fixed because it is very difficult to defend and fight because you only have missiles at close range