Thanks for the video.
Really interesting lesson.
There wasn’t much of the feared Su-27 nose authority or F-15 brickness to see, but it’s always easy to judge and laugh from the sideline.
So respect to Foxxo for taking the fight. 👍
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What is this title? I only play in full real and I have never once received a title for flying my su-27’s. I’m starting to think he’s just rambling to get attention at this point, the su-27’s radar is one of the worst, but it’s still super usable it just takes finesse.
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Really? I thought I did quite well against that piece of trash
Yeah, I had thought it would go FAR better against the F-15, though that was judging that I’d be in a close-in fight and not somebody prioritizing energy and sustained turn.
I think the few times he had gone close-in is the only time I had a chance to kill him, with only 1-2 of those rates coming close due to an offset.
Still a brick, though.
So… What’s the point in you replying if you’re simply going to agree with me?
I am not sure how you consider losing 3:1 against a plane that you said was less maneuverable to be doing quite well?
And I am being generous and counting the kills that were mutual head-on / 2nd turn head on and the post death R-73 kill.
There are more than a few times that I fought close in and was still able to reliably win.
If I had just rate fought the whole time you would have lost every single time but that would have been boring. Not only can the F-15A win reliably with rate fighting…it can also fight on the same terms as the Su-27 and still win most of the time. The Su-27 winning a dogfight is contingent on the F-15A making mistakes.
Do you stand by this statement?
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Well it wasn’t maneuverable, was it?
Why in the hell would you count that one? xD
If by close-in you mean tightening down from an energy fight beyond my reversal, that isn’t quite close-in.
Nah, I think I can outrate you if I did it right. Wouldn’t be hard against an F-15.
Absolutely.
I consider instantaneous turn, sustained turn, and energy retention to be components of maneuverability. Su-27 is worse than the F-15A in 2/3 of those categories and barely better in one of them.
I generally give people the benefit of the doubt when it comes to these kind of things so that I can’t be accused of making excuses. Same reason I am counting second turn head-on even though I generally do not shoot in them.
There are more than a few times where I went slow and didn’t force pure rate/energy fight. Not willingly flying in front of your guns while you stall yourself out is a pretty smart and reliable tactic though.
I doubt it. If it wasn’t hard you would have figured it out in our dueling session. Also the sustained turn rate of the Su-27 is inferior to the F-15A.
The fact that you do after getting so resoundingly trounced is a testament to your delusion. There are multiple sim players that would be able to repeat the same test against you and probably get similar results. Simply put…you are not as good as you think that you are…and the Su-27 is not as good as you think that it is.
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Yeah, there is a lot that goes into maneuverability, and a well-balanced aircraft would fare a lot better.
F-15 still sucks though.
At that point don’t count any of them, 4 hours into drinking is when the gits and shiggles come out.
I did for the most part, an offset and climb got me into the position to take a shot, though I’m definitely not hitting shit at 3am with a BAC in the tenths.
I think the only time an Su-27 would ever match an F-15s rate is… what, 500kts?
I am the voice of unreason, after all :3
I’m not saying I did good at all, I was running on a night and a half of no sleep and overproof.
It isn’t at all, though my irrational hatred for F-15s still puts it above them.
@Butt3rsOnBox are you seeing this? He thinks the Flanker is better than the F-15A in a dogfight.
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I know, I know, I’m sure this is fresh news for everybody.
You should duel butters with Su-27 and let him use F-15A.
It’ll be funny. We can get the whole squad laughing again.
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I bet he’d love to lose :)
In a close range dogfight, R-73s are better than Aim-9M for off-boresight shots (especially when combined with HMD) and R-27ERs are definetly better than Aim-7M.
been a while, but Su-27 does have HMD but the F-15A doesnt right?
So… As long as both aircraft are piloted well. The Su-27 definetly has some clear advantages over the F-15A in a WVR fight. Heck Id even give them a clear advantage in a BVR with the ability to fire off 4-6 R-27ERs vs 4x Aim-7Ms.
F-15A radar is better for target detection and faster refresh times. It also has a much better RWR.
It is possible for the F-15A to force a fight that defeats the HMD and R-73 shots at close range and then it simply comes down to guns. There is a reason that the Su-27 has never won a major Air RB 1v1 tournament when it comes to dogfighting.
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Guns only? Yeah… That doesn’t help much.
Better for target detection? You’re joking, right?
It’s a struggle to find an enemy beyond 40km.
at same time it lacks of TWS - 50/50
low-skill su-27 > low-skill F-15
high-skill su-27 < high skill F-15
seems like that
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didnt realise the conversation was guns only, in that situation, yeah, I can see the advantage going back to F-15A. But id say more because the F-15A has the better gun right? High volume of fire and better ammo count?
But I wouldnt count the Su-27 out entirely, especially not when we consider the average skill of US pilots in Sim (99% of the times im TKed, its a US pilot. Heck once got TKed by a guy in an F-15A after I defeated 2x Aim-7Ms fired at me and me spamming pings, I just let the third hit me)
But at top tier. I really dont think the Soviet sit at quite as massive of a disadvantage as they oftne claim. Sure R-77 has less range than Aim-120, but R-77 is better at close range. Sure Su-27SM has a buggy radar, but once fixed, probably not so inferior that it cannot be used (heck i’ve been locked on by a Su-27 faster than my Blue Vixen Radar in the Gripen could even find the target even though I could visually see the aircraft coming at me, in the end I risked just using ACM and hoped it wasnt a friendly locking me, so a dodging radar is not soviet only and back then Skyflash DF stood no chance vs R-27ER)
and then the elephant in the room. Su-27SM can carry 4x R73s, 4x R-77, 2x R-27ER AND 2x R-27ET. They have a missile for literally any situation. God I’d love to have that many missile on the Gripen or Tornado F3
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Original topic was on the Su-27, not the Su-27SM. Can’t really factor in R-77s into the Su-27’s sim BR when the Su-27 doesn’t get R-77s.