Trying to spade the Su-17M2 at 10.3 is pure masochism. This thing gets uptiered 80% of the time. Its a glorified Su-7B with a wing sweep and plain R-60 missiles.
It has no flares and it flies like a bus. ANYTHING that looks and fires a missile at you will kill you. And at 10.3, you face 90% of the planes that have flares.
And this thing is even as fast as a bus. You will only outrun Su-25s/A-10s to bomb bases. And you have enough bomb load to kill maximum 1 base (thats if you have the 500kg bombs, and no anything less).
With plain R-60 missiles, you can get possibly maximum 2 kills. Thats it, if the target is completely oblivious of you and is not pre-flaring or dropping a 1 flare to evade the R-60. And you face enemies with front aspect AAMs, like the AIM-9L, R-60M/K or R-23R/R-24R.
And for guided smart munitions - it can carry only 1 Kh-29L and 2x Kh-25. Meaning, even for GRB its not good, you have to be well very close to the battlefield to be able to see and hit something with those missiles.
Long story short - please, reduce its BR to 10.0. Its VERY bad, even when spaded.
You want to see x4 R-60 carriers that can go supersonic move down to 10.0 and face against Sabres?
Hell no
You arleady have A-10s and Su-25 with AIM-9Ls and R-60Ms (which are all aspect) at 10.0. This thing can barely go into Mach at low latitude with bombs. And it has no flares. The issue you are having is the Saber being able to face those things. Especially the german (canadian) ones.
The new supersonic A-10 and Su-25 are insane
the F105 says hi Welcome to dying to IR missiles as you try to make it halfway across the map loaded with bombs.
that already is a thing… kinda
Yes, lets make it even worse
There is literally no aircraft that can stand up to the Su-17M2 at 9.0, not to mention the Hawker Hunter, F-2/F-40/CL-13A Sabres, and even MiGs.
You want to makes it worse even more because you are getting killed by advanced missiles?
Also, there are still plenty of other 10.3BR aircraft besides the Su-17M2 that have advanced missiles without flares such as Mitsubishi F-1 and F-104J, J35D, Mirage IIIC, F-4F Early.
BTW, You can bring S-24 rockets that can use it as flares. Why not you bring it?
Yak-38 can’t go supersonics and as far as I know, the lowest BR aircraft capable of carrying 4 R-60s with supersonic is the MiG-21SMT/MF that is most cracked 10.3BR rn.
This thing is a bus, it can barely go past M1 at ground level (loaded). It bleeds A LOT when turning. It only maybe saving grace is having 2xR-60s stock and 2 more at T4.
Please, make difference between R-60 and R-60M/K. The plain R-60 is NOT all aspect. You have planes like the A-10 and Su-25 with ALL ASPECT AIM-9L/R-60M. They may not be supersonic, but they can go pretty fast as well.
The moment anything equipped with ANY AAM looks at you - you are dead.
You face non-stop A-10s. if you are within 3km of them and they look at you - boom, dead.
You face non-stop F-5s. You need to get on their tail to be able to fire a R-60 and hit them. But they are faster and more maneuverable than you, so that makes it hard (since you turn and bleed speed like a bus).
You face at 10.3 Mirages with Magics. You have no flares, no chaff. Lots of stuff already has at 10.3 front aspect missiles.
You have nothing front aspect and no defensive measures.
You cry about it facing Sabers? Ask the question why are sabers facing A-10s or Su-25s.
Same can be said for a MiG-17. How fair is it to face A-10s?
Or a Tu-4 facing Red Tops? Highest BR prop plane facing 2nd gen IR missiles.
It is not wrong
You can go Mach 1.15 with 30mins fuel that is literally faster than F-5s and MiG-21SMT.
As far as I know, the top speed of the Su-25 is pretty close to the La-15/La-174, but where in the world is the Su-25 “pretty fast”?
Skill issue.
You wouldn’t die by all-aspect missiles if you bring S-24 and use it like that.
https://streamable.com/eocdog
It is still works against Magic II that has IRCM as well btw.
And aim with your x2 NR-30s.
F-5s can’t go over Mach 1.15 on the deck so, You just need to keep faster and bnz. Also, It doesn’t bleed a lot at flat turning on 900km/h to 1000km/h when you used manual swept wing control.
Mirage IIIC doesn’t have CMs but still sitting at 10.3BR.
Why are you whining to change the BR on the Su-17M2 when similar counterparts(flareless jet with advanced missiles) are still sitting there?
That is not fair of course, but the A-10/Su-25 are still slow and you will not be killed by their missiles as long as you are careful in your positioning. But you are suggesting to make the current awful compression even worse LMAO 🤡
Just turn off your engine before Sea Vixen comes to you.
Problem solved.
Only issues are SARH missiles from Vautour and Firestreak from Swift F.7.
Honestly skill issue. The Su-17M2 was bad when it was 11.0 with the F-14 and I aced it when it was at that br. Its actually usable now. Here are some tips for surviving in the Su-17 when it was 11.0.
-Recommended armament is two rockets (any will do) on the outer pylons, 4 bombs under the aircraft, and 4 R-60s.
-Fly low and at an angle to the battlefield.
-Avoid aircraft w/ all aspects at all costs.
-Let your team engage the enemy before even thinking of bombing targets.
Nothing wrong with wanting to bomb, but in order to bomb you need less enemy premium sluts who will dive after the first target of opportunity to get their 1 kill before crashing. You need to start in fighter mode… when enemy team is mostly dead, you can land, rearm with some bombs, bomb a base if you so wish…
You are here complaining you can’t straightline to a base and bomb in peace. Why do you demand this for free? It isn’t for free. You cannot, and shouldn’t, be able to bomb for free right at the start of the match.
You have R60s, you even get rockets to use as makeshift flares, you get a usable gun, you are an entirely viable fighter even if somewhat a bus.
Another way to go about it, is to make a viable fighter loadout with some sacrfices, and add some bombs, you don’t rush in… you come in on an off angle, but, when you see your base rushers on your team have been successful and the bases are gone, you just drop your bombs off and go full fighter. If not, you are now in a position to drop your bombs without being intercepted as you aren’t in a predictable path and go fighter mode right after. I dunno man, understand how the ARB meta works, work with it and be useful towards winning the match instead of being egocentric and expect the game to give you free RP/SL every game by straightlining a plane full with bombs witout enemy being able to counter it.
If you just want to rush bomb a base at all, why are you using the Su17? You rush into the enemy team loaded with bombs and slow, don’t have CM, can’t maneuver all that well. You just die.
Still, that is no reason to downtier it as it’s a capable fighter.
This is how i felt like playing the f-4f early at 10.3. no flares, 4x 20g missiles… ugh. Though since i got it couple years ago, back then it was possible to even dodge 30g missiles with relative ease, it was possible to survive so it was more manageable. The improved autopilot update kinda ruined that for me though.
We’ve already got R-60s and the even better AIM-9L at 10.0 and under right now.
Hell, even the aim-9G and J can be a nightmare with no flares.
And nobody is saying we should be adding more of those, especially not on a platform which can go 1400 kph on the deck and carries 4 R60s.
That stuff like the AV8, Yak38, A6, A4N, and whatnot sit where they sit is disgusting enough already, but you can at least catch them sometimes, and they can’t just NOPE the heck away like a Su17 can in any 9.0 downtier which will lack 10.3s to actually catch it.
The problem isn’t going away anytime soon, either move the others up or lower the one that’s suffering.
Not to mention stupidly undertiered jets like the F-104A/C.
Up is the solution, not down. Why make 9.0/9.3 suffer more.
Agreed but it ain’t happening, not anytime soon.
They denied 12.7 after adding the Gripen, SU-27 and F-15.
So until they actually up the top BR there will be no relief for any BR, and let’s be honest, they will probably move the jets that suffer at 11.0/11.3 up just so that they will still face the top dogs.
If they don’t do that, then they will just chew up the 10.3s, there are plenty of 10.0-10.3 that really do not deserve to face 11.0-11.3 every match, but at the same time, you can’t have them face off against 9.0-9.3 every match. BRs are set in a way that also takes into account popularity of certain airplanes (or combination of airplanes) so that queue time is brought down as well as generating somewhat balanced games… you can immediately see what happens to the MM when they add a popular premium, see for example when they added the F4S, nearly every game at 10.3 you would be dropped into 11.3 games. That same happened when they lowered the F104, nearly every 8.3 game you would be dropped into 9.3.
It’s not just “Plane X deserves Y”, you have to look further than that. Changes in BR change the meta (or could change it) which in turn influences the MM.