The Bundeswehr didn’t want the full armour package because of weight and cost constrictions. The “german solution” is B-Tech hull + D-Tech turret + D-Tech add-on (add-on was later left out completely), while the “swedish solution” is the TVM max’s full package with D-Tech internal + add-on.
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Gen 3 (MEXAS) is from 1990-1994 and was used on Leo 2A5 and Strv 122.
Gen 4 and 5 is AMAP (rebrand/continued development of MEXAS)
The “German” armor package is the TVM/KVT an early version of MEXAS that was never adopted, it is the initial proposal that they approached Sweden with, to improve the armor. Easily recognizable by its flat turret side add-ons armor. This MEXAS Armor was designed after 1984. The TVMs were build using it in 1989:
Sweden was probably not happy with this design and approached IBD for a cooperation to improve it for their requirements.
In 1994 under the swedish trials they compared the results of that cooperation of their MEXAS solution (Swedish) to the initial proposal (German). This improved version was later adopted.
In 2004 MEXAS was rebranded into AMAP, (which also has multiple generations) and in 2014-2019 it was bought up by Rheinmetall.
KMW on the other hand developed their own similar armor package for the Leopard 2A7V in cooperation with GEKE and EODH, possibly in cooperation with Rheinmetall.
Using the 1994s MEXAS armor value values for the 2A7V (which doesnt even use it) or Strv 123A is not really useful. As I demonstrated, that there are at least 3 newer generations of this armor.
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No thats just you
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I started this thread thinking it would be a fun hype thing, welp it turned into a online argument like all else lol
Thats how it always goes with leopard talks, look at the can leo, its a cesspool between british and German players because the majority of both sides are ignorant.
Not really something unique to the leos, any modern tank with a big fanbase (hence not the chally or ariete) will have people screeching at eachother in every related thread over who / what and why their tank is obviously better than the rest and why gaijin is biased and racist toward that nationality because it’s not the ultra-mega death machine 9000 they believe it to be. The french cry “gaijin hates france” and the chinese cry “gaijin is racist” all the time because of this.
Yeah it just sucks that it has to be a measuring contest every time. But it does just always blild down to a more nerdy version of my dad could beat up your dad, when it comes to stuff like this. It also just completely goes off topic and derails the post. I avoid making posts because i have no interest in it just flying off the rails like this.
Do you mean you opened this thread?
Because u didnt start/create it, as far as i am aware.
Oh, Welp. I made a similar thread with the same title so i thaught that it had blown up 💀
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I know this is horribly late and might’ve been cleared up in the responses (tried to read them all but might’ve missed it)
Bandaggregat refers to the entire track assembly, road wheels, tracks, idlers, etc
As for the mörkersikten (literal: darkness sight) for gunner and commander. It’s hard to know exactly. Especially since it’s made to inform anyone including civilians, therefore the language might be different. But they probably mean thermals and regular night vision. What makes me think that is they specifically mention a mörkerkörningskamera (literal: darkness driving camera) for the driver. That on the other hand I belive is night vision only.
Other than that, they mention replacing basically all electronics to make them on par with other modern leopard 2’s as you guys have talked about extensively.
Happy to disambiguate anything else
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they basicaly are building a 2a7v thats it honestly
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Essentially yes
The armor protection of these versions does not change in any way, the Swedes had MEXAS from Leopard 2S (Strv 122A), and it remained in other modifications (B/C/D).
Modification “B+” is generally a demonstrator, created by the German side, with a purchased subsidiary Swedish company, which no longer exists, on the basis of a Swedish tank. And as I remember, it was disposed of
This will be the same modification as Norway (Leopard 2A8NOR), only with Swedish features. Do not expect anything fundamentally new
Do they still operate M322 or will they use new ammunition like DM33 or whatever…?
DM33 is older and worse shell than M/95.
Strv’s in general can fire DM53-63 without any major issues.
They put in an order for a newer version of programmable HE (M339) together with Finland in 2022
(https://www.fmv.se/aktuellt--press/aktuella-handelser/ammunition-till-stridsvagn-122/)
and
(You are being redirected...)
But i have not seen anything regarding newer APFSDS yet, but it would be odd to upgrade the barrel and not also buy newer rounds made for that barrel (to take full use of the length).
Honestly, they can’t, because Sweden doesn’t have DM43/53/63/73
Leclerc moment
that doesn’t make sense, just because they don’t have it doesn’t mean that they can’t fire it if they did have it. The strv122 has the exact same barrel as the Leopard 2A4 (L/44) so can fire all the same ammunition that it can.
The new strv123 however is going to get the same barrel that the Leopard 2A(6?)/7/8 has (L/55A1).
By your logic, Abrams can also fire German shells because it has a licensed Rh cannon, which is fundamentally wrong. It is impossible to shoot with what a nation does not have.
When the “123” is ready, it will probably get the DM63 or a newer shell, obviously
I do not understand what you are trying to say?
Are you trying to say that 122 can’t fire newer rounds because of the lack of access to the round or are you trying to say that 122 can’t fire it ever even if they had access to the round because of [insert your reason here if applicable] reason?
Because purely on a technical level, if a DM53 round is inserted into a 122’s canon, it will fire without issues.