Spall Fragments Bouncing Internally

Suggestions Gameplay
1
[Would you like to see this in-game?]
  • Yes
  • No
0 voters

Spall bouncing

Amazing simulation of a penetration of a Sherman with a solid shot round from SY Simulations

Introduction

Hello and welcome to my suggestion to make spall fragments bounce upon colliding with objects on the interior of a a vehicle, instead of disappearing as they do currently, with the aim of making damage from solid shot (AP, APCR, APDS, etc) more consistent.

A short while ago gaijin put out their poll on whether APHE, specifically the post penetration effect, should be nerfed. This narrowly got voted down, even though the vote was only to test the mechanic, not implement it. Some of the most frequent reasons for rejecting the test were ‘consistent damage is fun gameplay, taking 4 shots to kill the enemy isn’t’ and ‘it would require a big rebalance of vehicles that currently rely on APHE to do damage’, which are both fair reasons to be against the change.

However, in my opinion, APHE and solid shot still need to be brought into parity, and if the community does not want APHE to be nerfed, the solution is simple - buff solid shot. My suggestion to buff solid shot is to have spall fragments bounce inside a vehicle once they have been created - currently as soon as they hit a surface, whether it’s a breech, turret ring, or hull interior, they are absorbed and disappear.

Modelling them to bounce would not only improve the consistency of solid shot, it would also improve the game from a historical accuracy point of view, as ball-bearing sized chunks of metal travelling at 100s of metres a second would not simple disappear upon colliding with the interior hull of a tank.

Spalling
Spalling1778×561 112 KB

Super simple MS paint mock-up showing APHE and current solid shot damage, as well as proposed solid shot damage with the spall bouncing being shown in blue. All shots fired from the same cannon, the American 6pdr which gets both solid shot and APHE.

Relevant content

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8w3O39YRM-w

6 Likes
2

That would buff APHE as well, not really towards ‘parity’ like you want.

3

I could see this causing much more “getting Gaijined” moments, and it could impact performance too.

I would like to see it if it was implemented well.

+1 for solid shot only.

2 Likes
4

If APHE goes from 9/10 to 9.5/10 for lethality, and solid shot goes from 4/10 to 8/10, that is still a huge step towards the ammo types being balanced, which they are currently absolutely not.

Besides, the change could only be for solid shot, that way the ammo types actually have defined roles, with APHE having exploding spall and solid shot having bouncing spall. This would add actual uniqueness for ammo, allowing for selection based on task or personal preference, unlike the situation currently, which is ‘take APHE if you have it’, at least for 6.7ish and below.

5

Well no, its a change to the fragment simulation. They’re not going to arbitrarily turn it on/off for different shells, nor should they. A change like that has to be a common simulation.

6

Like how APHE ahistorically detonates a hand grenade inside the enemy fighting compartment? And how APHE didn’t even have initial spall generation until after the APHE vote? Gaijin are clearly willing to have different spall generation based on ammo type.

But this isn’t a hill I’m particularly willing to die on, that wasn’t even the main point of my above comment, just the one you singled out to disagree with. I’m not going to get bogged down in a completely off-topic argument.

As I said in my first comment, which was addressing your actual point, even if this change was implemented to both solid shot and APHE, it would still be good progress in terms of bringing the two ammo types closer together in performance.

7

You mean the surviving shell core they added to APHE post pen?

How is a change to make the game more consistent an argument for making the game less consistent?

8

What?

9

They made the game more consistent by making the APHE shell core survive post pen. And you’re using it as an example for why the game should be less consistent and arbitrability turn on/off fragment bouncing depending on the shell.

I anything, its an argument for making fragment bouncing universal.

10

To the first section of your comment - please see the below

Yes, as I have said twice now, and you seem to have ignored both times, if this change was universal it would still be a beneficial change and a net positive to the game.

11

Its not off-topic if people respond to your own point, you made in your own topic.

12

+1 from me. I think it’s cool, just wondering how they’d simulate it.

Also on the topic of give/don’t give APHE spall/fragment bouncing, I say give it spall/fragment bouncing. Gaijoobles can always just change how much it spalls/fragments.

1 Like
13

And as I explained quite clearly, that was only one potential example of how this change could be implemented, but not one that I particularly support over any other, nor one that I want to spend time arguing over and de-railing this discussion. It is miles away from the main point of this suggestion, which is to discuss a potential method of increasing the consistent lethality of solid shot damage.

If you don’t think an off-hand comment I made after I addressed your initial concerns would be a suitable addition to the game, your opinion is completely valid!

14

I think this is needed, especially at top tier. Hopefully this increases the effectiveness of APFSDS despite spall liners.