Sovetsky Soyuz: Red Oceans

Official News, Development Blogs and Updates
255

This exactly ☝️

I started playing WT when it was just planes, and one of the big reasons I stuck around for the long haul was because of their stated goal to include all military forces: air, sea, and land. I thoroughly enjoy all the modes (well, until the recent changes to Naval Arcade aiming anyway.) And I have spent much of my time and money making lineups that I love for each mode. This is one of the big reasons why I am consistently posting about my strong opposition to the Naval Arcade aiming changes.

A few lineups showing the time and money I have spent, especially on Naval:
Air:

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Land:
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image2247×91 90.3 KB

Sea:
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image2253×92 98.3 KB

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image2249×89 95.3 KB

@ Gaijin, Devs, Managers, Mods: Please make Naval Arcade aiming/mode great again 🙏 I miss playing my Bote lineups, thank you.

2 Likes
256

I doubt it, at the top there will be only Littorio class (which they will most likely nerf in one way or another). Unfortunately Italy doesn’t have laid down paper classes left, the only thing which can be done is adding some idea written on a napkin to upgrade one of Littorio class ships (maybe some proposal for not completed Impero).

257

I didnt check for awhile since i’m not a naval player, did they fix motion sickness with arcade targeting?

1 Like
258

Oh yeah, I forgot about that. I don’t think so, I tried Naval again a week or two ago, and it was still there. No matter which mode (is it on Naval RB too? I have not tried), that also makes Naval completely unplayable for me. Absolutely disgusting and I don’t even get motion sick IRL, but that nonsense makes me want to throw my keyboard (after puking up my guts onto it) 🤮

259

https://www.navalgazing.net/Soviet-Battleships-Part-2

This you can read about “ready”, about armour

In 1939, plans called for 10,000 tons of armor, but deliveries totaled only 1,800 tons, and over half was rejected as failing quality control. Problems with production of cemented armor saw the replacement of such plates with simpler face-hardened plates anywhere over 200mm thick. To help compensate for the loss of the cemented layer, the Soviets made the whole plate harder, and thus brittle, greatly reducing protection.

In mid-1940, it was discovered that 70,000 rivets in the bottom of Sovetskaia Belorussiia were made from inferior steel.

Only half the required men were available to the shipyards

The design was compromised even more by the wider situation in the USSR, which lead to the only case I’m aware of of a battleship being cancelled due to quality-control problems, and to serious delays in the other three ships. Even without the German invasion, the ships would have been completed alongside vessels like the Montana and Lion classes, which would have greatly outmatched them.

irl this is trash

3 Likes
260

Applies to pretty much everything in WT - no real world issues outside of reload rate are ever in the game!

261

Germany has equal number of non-comissioned ship in tree now, Italy just next to Germany and USSR.

Not rule for USSR, but nations that didn’t have enough ships.

1 Like
263

https://samlib.ru/m/matweenko_a_g/proizwodstwobronidljanuzhdflotawrossijskojimperii.shtml

about ussr armour.

And yes, Kron and new Sevastopol had same issue, but very thick SS amrour especcialy.
Literaly this is not cemented armor, just face-hardened armor.

https://readli.net/lineynyie-korabli-tipa-amp-quot-sovetskiy-soyuz-amp-quot/
page 104-107

Кроме
того, ввиду отсутствия технических условий
и освоенной технологии заводы, а с ними и
НКОП даже в 1938 г. отказывались от изго-
товления плит толщиной более 200 мм.

In addition, due to the lack of technical conditions and the mastered technology, the factories, and with them the NKOP, even in 1938 refused to manufacture slabs more than 200 mm thick.

Фактически же,
в 1939 г. оба старых завода изготовили для
мониторов (типа Хасан) и линкоров проек-
та 23 всего 1844 т брони, в основном, гомо-
генной, из которой 996 т, то есть все 11
партий, постановленных Мариупольским
заводом, были забракованы по результатам
отстрела на полигоне. В 1939 г. этот завод
так и не смог поставить для отстрела цемен-
тированные плиты толщиной более 230 мм.

In fact, in 1939, both old plants produced only 1,844 tons of armor, mostly homogeneous, for monitors (Khasan type) and Project 23 battleships, of which 996 tons, i.e. all 11 batches issued by the Mariupol plant, were rejected based on the results of firing at the proving ground. In 1939, this plant was still unable to supply cemented plates more than 230 mm thick for firing.

На основе материалов прошедшей в
июне 1940 г. на базе ЦНИИ-48 конференции
по броне в ноябре того же года НК ВМФ и
НКСП выпустили совместный приказ, кото-
рый положил «…конец произволу отдель-
ных лиц и организаций в оценке пригодно-
сти отдельных типов брони». Приказ пред-
писывал ориентироваться «на броню БЦ в
толщинах выше 200 мм, а цементированную
броню (КЦ) сохранить для толщины до
200 мм». Несомненно это вынужденное ре-
шение несколько снижало бронестойкость
корабельных конструкций.

Based on the materials of the conference on armor held in June 1940 at the Central Research Institute-48, in November of the same year, the Navy Commissariat and the People’s Commissariat of Shipbuilding issued a joint order that put “…an end to the arbitrariness of individuals and organizations in assessing the suitability of individual types of armor.” The order prescribed focusing “on BC armor in thicknesses greater than 200 mm, and retaining cemented armor (CCA) for thicknesses up to 200 mm.” Undoubtedly, this forced decision somewhat reduced the armor resistance of ship structures.

BC (БЦ) this is name for face-hardened armor

264

Currently there are no face-hardened armor, only cemented armor in this game. Not soviet bias, but dagor engine problem.

WW1 british ships and all IJN warships were also face-hardened armor but still, they have cememtned armor in this game.

1 Like
265

Hardened armour exist in game

Lol what problem write code for one more type with Armour Modifier? CA armour is just modifier.

In case of SS they wanted to use cemented armor, but were forced to use face-hardened armor instead, and so they increased the thickness. In the end, nothing was actually built. So, either the armor thickness should be reduced, or the armor modifier should be lowered.

266

That modifier is already at limit to be added. Thats why ducol steel, one of important type of steel for armor and anti-fragmentation structure, does not get independent stats but divided into ‘structual steel’(which is far inferior than ducol steel), or RHA(which is better than ducol steel) by where it used.

That’s not faced hardened armour we’re talking about. Face hardened armour is about 1.05 X RHAe.

267

Russian book say another.
We demand a fair recalculation of this paper battleship! Of course he is from red nations.

268

I’ve read that book before too, and none of there saids ‘face hardened armor is weaker than rolled homogenous armor’.

Current ingame cemented armour is 1.1 X RHAe, what supposed to be ‘face hardened armour’ will be 1.05 X RHAe if implemented in game.
If you can’t understand what RHAe means, then I feel I don’t need to talk to someone that didn’t know even what he/she is talking about.

269

These ships have so much work poured into them I pray for the success of a future naval mode. I would LOVE to sail these into battle, but as naval currently stands I can’t do it, it’s so unentertaining for me 😔

2 Likes
270

Cemented armour IS face hardened armour tho - so what is the difference they are trying to make ?

the term “cemented” came from the mid-late 1800’s when it was literally “cementing” a hard plate to a softer one, but that was replaced by the 1900’s with face hardening by carburising - increasing the carbon content of the face and a thickness behind it - originally by covering it with ground carbon (charcoal or coke), which was in turn replaced by playing carbon-rich gas (eg acetylene) across it at high temperatures for several days.

That’s simplistic of course - there were often several steps of heat treatment lasting weeks.
cemented was a term first used by Krupp AFAIK - they used slightly different steel alloys, but hte process was essentially the same.

1 Like
271

There were difference between modern KCA and WW1 VH though, which is not extremely big.
But anyway, unless Gaijin upgrde their Dagor engine(which they doesn’t for two years for now), there will be no way distinguishing VH and KCA so yeah, pointless protest for now sadly.

1 Like
272

What is VH?? “Very Hard”??

Gaijin does already differentiate between face hardened and homogeneous for ships -
image

273

‘Vickers Hardened’

for that Hardened armour… that is not actually face hardened armour and didn’t use in any of heavy cruisers and battleships right now. It’s like 19th century hardened armour

274

Face hardened and cemented are exactly the same thing.

275

In term, yes. But Vickers Hardened armour and Krupp Cemented Armour are little different in quality. VH was little inferior to KCA irl.

That’s maybe why that book is mentioning as ‘as cemented fail, turns into face hardened’