Yes. This is not the place to discuss something else than what’s suggested in the OP.
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There is severe misreading in this summary.
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The japanese document says that Marubeni Corp has 38% share of joint venture, not 43%. Also document says that joint venture plans to produce 244,000t of high-grade steel, not armor grade steel. Document says that some of high grade steel might be used in armor producing, but that is just opinion without any evidence.
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Relationship of IHI and Samsung Heavy Industries : In the pdf document, congressman Sakai says “There is a plan of merging IHI and Samsung Heavy Industries in order to establish plane manufacturer”, but this was never happened. Simple fact, IHI is existing as independent company of japan now. Sakai’s comment is just opinion, so there is no direct relationship between IHI and Samsung Aerospace.
Overall, コタリ is overestimating the military coorperation between Korea and Japan. None of opinion can be proved by these documents.
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Yes, the news from North Korea is true, and DDR also said same thing. However, history says that reunification was occured in Germany. Cold war is still ongoing problem in Korea, and nobody knows how it will be end. Considering the history of germany, the statement of North could be the signal of reunification. Who knows?
Also, please do not overestimate the script. About 60% of young people think unnecessary, not all of South Korean population. As I mentioned above, considering cold war history of Germany, right now there is no way to know how the unification of Korea goes on.
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丸紅が四三パーセント出資している
→ Sorry for that, it was my misreading. 43% is right.
兵器の素材供給をする公算が強い
→ Are you want to say this sentence is the evidence of steel used in defence sector? The meaning of this sentence is “There is high possibility that they are providing steel to defence sector”. This is just author’s opinion, including no objective evidence. I cannot find other sentence about the steel supply.
About engine manufacturing
→ Sakai only saying that there is plan to establish joint engine plant of IHI and Samsung. Does your data shows that the establishment of joint plant is achieved as planned? No. Before saying coincidence, you should prove that the joint plant is actually established, and the joint plant is established for engine production. Your data only shows “future plan” at that time.
About IHI
→ Yes I know, I well know that mechanical engineering level of Japan is so high. That is why I said IHI is independent company, without any relationship of Korean defence industry. I think my short english caused misunderstanding.
“Magically predicted”
→ So are you saying the only connection of your two opinion
(1. IHI + Samsung Joint plant “plan” 2. Samsung made plane engines)
is the date and location? Well, if that is true, I think you can find more direct evidence for that. Such as the news paragraph about “IHI-Samsung Joint plant manufacturing F-5 engines”.
Besides, location coincidence is not a suprise, because heavy industries of Korea are mainly located in Ulsan or Changwon. Only 2 options.
Sorry for not using mention funtion like you, I’m newbie in this forum.
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Samsung Precision Industry was established in 1977 and was designated as a defense company in 1978.
Jet engine production began in 1980
History of Samsung Precision Industry (now Hanwha Aerospace)
It was established as a joint venture composed of 75% of Samsung and 25% of IHI, but as it was designated as a defense business, IHI sold all of its shares to Samsung
(1978, before Samsung produced the jet engine)
Data on Samsung’s attempt to cooperate with IHI on shipbuilding and precision industries (bottom of page 16)
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So it seems that Samsung Precision initially wasn’t a defense company, and IHI also didn’t want to participate in defense industry of Korea.
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Also I’m curious about the MD500. This case was the first airplane manufacturing plant in South Korea, but the MD500 was being built prior to this as a “helicopter”, so who was the one building the MD500?
Korean Air produced the first Korean-made MD500 on August 20, 1976 (Hugues License)
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The J85 jet engine of the kf-5 was designed by the United States.
Purchasing processing tools and raw materials from other countries does not call it military cooperation
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Could you please explain who said this? Korea and Japan are deeply connected in economy, and it is true. But in this thread, your opinion is “Korean military industry is based on Japanese industry, so SK tanks should be a sub-tree of Japanese tree”. But no direct military connection can be read from documents above.
Do not use the word “certainly” in this case. Yes, Samsung Precision might have bought Japanese manufacturing machines from IHI. So what? Tesla motors is using Japanses Fanuc robots in their factory, so you want to say Tesla cars are Japanese cars? If there is a game “Car Thunder”, Tesla cars should be in the Japanese motor tree? These are not a direct connection in military technology.
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Just ctrl+f the word connection and you get about a dozen people saying the 2 countries have 0 connection.
Except for the part where many Korean companies that are now producing military equipment for the ROK were jointly founded with Japan or received massive investments in the form of capital, material, and manufacturing expertise investment. That on top of Japan supplying things like T-33As and military equipment including tank cannon parts. Then you have Japan participating in the Korean war. That means that Japan fulfils much more than what were required of other sub-trees. Specifically Hungary where it spent a large portion of it’s history in war with the Kingdom of Italy, were briefly allied for 3 years where the two rarely interacted or fought together with minimal equipment transfers, then spent the next 50 on opposite sides of the Iron curtain, yet those 3 years are seen as good enough for the subtree.
I don’t think you realize how difficult military jet engine manufacturing is. There aren’t even double digits of companies currently active globally who can make a domestic jet engine and even a country like Korea with a massive modern MIC still doesn’t have a domestic design and China just barely is moving past Russian designs.
With the research I’ve done into military jet engines, I would be absolutely floored if Samsung Precision just started license production out of the blue with no input from IHI even if its simply licensed production. Also this wouldn’t change the fact that Samsung Precision was building engines for the MD500D’s while still partnered with IHI, so undoubtedly got help from IHI with that. This experience producing T63-As while partnered with IHI definitely had an effect on the later J85 production for the F-5.
No because Japan didn’t pump hundreds of millions of dollars into Tesla, sending dozens of engineers to Tesla as advisors, jointly founding a bunch of companies that Tesla would subcontract too. Japan did more than just send some machines to Korea.
Japan has never participated Korean War.
KAI - Only major Korean aviation corp that was established in 1999 and it is a public corp → No connection with Japan
LIG Nex1 - Founded in 1976 for licensed production of Nike missile
POONGSAN - Founded in 1968, produced metal equipment and later became a military defense contractor after producing munitions for ROK Army
HYUNDAI WIA - Founded in 1976 as a subsidiary of KIA
HYUNDAI ROTEM - Founded in 1999
Hanhwa Aerospace - Founded in 1977 as a subsidiary of Samsung
Not even a single Korean major defense corp was ‘jointly founded’ with Japanese corporations
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This. Even if Japan and Korea have close history with each other in terms of (wars, trade, occupation etc). When it comes to their military technology itself, they both have literally nothing in common with each other.
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POSCO which was the first steel plant in Korea started out as a steel manufacturer and later moved onto making steel plates for armored vehicles was founded and funded by Japan.
We just had a discussion above that Ishikawa Heavy Industries helped found Samsung Heavy Industries then jointly founded Hanhwa Aero.
Then you have all these companies
Could you have at least read literally anything that was discussed here before you said something stupid.
Except for all the machinery equipment and practical expertise provided to a bunch of Korean companies that went onto become some of the largest defense contractors in Korea. I mean sure. If you do ignore all the evidence then there is no evidence.
Don’t take it from me though. The text quotes the Korean Defense Minister in 1977 saying they were receiving technical assistance from the Japanese in the defense industry.
七七年十月末の韓国国会国防 委員会で、徐鐘喆国防相は、「日本側から防衛産業に関する技術協力を受けている」 (『東 亜日報』七七年十一月一日)と発言していた。
The donor of T-33 is the United States
The U.S. gave Korea aircraft that were operated in Japan. Japan did not give Korea aircraft
Samsung Precision Industry signed an agreement with Allison in the second half of 1984 to develop and build jet engines, and actually participated in the production of A225 engines from 1987
Of course, 1987 was nine years after IHI sold all of its shares in Samsung Precision Industry in 1978
And License production never allows license suppliers to assemble using third-party technology at the production company’s disposal
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Why are you keep saying this? It was “Cannon barrel” in Japanse, not “Tank cannon”. Use appropriate translation if you want to use japanese documents.
Your logic jumps so high. Is there any country that achieved industrialization alone except western great powers? Even Japan needed foregin capital to become a great power.
German capital and engineers largely helped the construction of Yawata Steel Works.
Nagasaki Shipyard of Mitsubishi Heavy Industry, which was Nagasaki Steel Works previously, was built by Dutch technology.
These were the basement of Japanese industrialization. If we use your logic, Japanese military technology was mainly based on German, Dutch, British etc… technology, so JPN tree should be ripped off to the other trees. Should gaijin do that? I can’t agree with that because Japan still has a lot of interesting military vehicles. When it comes to the topic of SK tree, we should talk about how many interesting vehicles Korea has. Does Korea have sufficient vehicles to make independent tree? Does Korean vehicle have DIRECT technological relationship with other vehicles? NOT civil economy relationship.
I totally understand how difficult it is. I NEVER said Korean military industry achieved high technological level alone to manufacture jet engines. From your data, the only thing can be read is this : There is possibility that IHI helped Samsung to construct Changwon plant. If you want to insist further, please bring here detailed documents and point out which sentence is saying that.
So, did Japan send engineers and pump millions of dollars into Korean military industry?
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There is complex story in here.
First, full comment of SK defense minister can be checked from the Donga news in 1977/10/31 (document says 1977/11/01, but I found it from 1977/10/31 evening paper)
You can check it from here
This news is from the defence committee in 1977/10/31. You can check full proceedings from here.
Upper image is the question of committe member Shin Sangwoo. He is saying :
- In 10/13, Japanese congressman Sakai (I think this man is the same man from your document) said that Japan-Korea Joint company is cooperating in Korean military industry.
- It has been a severe problem in Japan, because Japanese government is banning the exportation of military equipments.
- When it comes to Japan-Korea joint military project, I concern that the project can be affected by Japanese policy.
- How will ministry of defence deal with this problem in the future? And is it true?
And, defence minister Seo Jongcheol answers like this.
- There is no such company that participating in military industry with foreign company.
- There is introduction of technology in military industry from Japan, but not sharing capital.
- No plan exists to establish joint project with Japan in military industry.
Overall,
- There is some kind of technology introduction in military sector from Japan.
- However, there is no joint company in military industry.
- Japan was prohibiting the exportation of military products at that time.
Considering these circumstances, it is true that Japanese technology contributes to Korean defence industry, but the effect was limited because there was no capital share of Japan, and Japanese government was prohibiting the exportation of defence products.
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+1
I Like it. Maybe south Korean and Turkish Tech Tree?
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no
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Hello, please do discuss the contents about South Korean vehicles here. Be on topic.
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