from what i remember and heared is that turkey might not be a good idea either
Problem is high tier turkey wpuld be legit as large as israel… in scale
Perfect opportunity to make Israel tree big but tbh i know for sure gaijin would just add copy and paste stuff in there and maybe like 1 unique vehicles same goes to Chile
Since it seems that Gaijin decided to make combined sub trees for the secondary nations (Japan, China, Israel) in personal opinion I think that Israel will stay with Chile and Turkey, it could also be a Latin American branch for Israel composed mainly of Chile, Argentina, Brazil and some things from Colombia like Kfir C.10
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I think israel just needs something… its tanks currently are so…bland
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They’re not supposed to be, they should be some of the most unique and heavily modified tanks in game…
• The Namer RCWS-30 should be nearly impenetrable from the front against even top tier APFSDS, as well as thickly armored sides and roof.
• The Merkava Mk.3 armor is clearly lacking in both kinetic and chemical protection.
• The Merkava Mk.1/2 has an overly long reload and are lacking in chemical protection.
• The Merkava Mk.4 is 15 tons underweight and under-armored. Also still no Merkava Mk.4A
• Still no early/prototype Merkava or Merkava Magach.
• The Magach 6/7 series have an overly long reload and their first stage ammo is incredibly easy to hit.
• The Magach 7C is missing lots of KE protection.
• Still no Magach 7A, and still no Sabra tanks with their beautiful 120mm guns.
• The Machbet is unable to carry extra stingers in the hull.
• Sholef V1 is missing LRF, stabilizer, has nearly double the reload rate it should, has 15 extra tons of weight, has horrible and unrealistically slow turret traverse in both horizontal and vertical, and has lower turret armor values than it should.
• The Tiran 6 is missing ERA (or gaijin will add a Tiran 6 ERA premium I bet lmao).
• The Tiran 4Sh uses the wrong 105mm gun and is missing M111 APFSDS. Also potentially missing a .50 cal, smoke grenades, and LRF, but I’ve yet to see sources indicating it’s existence.
• Still no Tiran 5/6Sh with 105mm Sharir and M111 APFSDS.
• Still no top tier SPAA like the HSVD ADAMS or SPYDER
• Still no light tank line or vehicles like the Eitan IFV, Sabrah light tank, late Israeli upgraded TAMs, or IFVs like the Achzarit with the RCWS-30, the Namer with the 30mm Bushmaster, the other upgraded M113 chassis tanks with auto-cannons, etc
• Spikes are underperforming, have horrible guidance, and have lackluster damage.
• LAHAT 105/120mm cannon launched Tandem warhead ATGM still missing on Merkavas and late Magachs.
• No M248 Sword APFSDS on any vehicles yet.
And this is just mainly the ground TT issues…
Anyway rant over,
Conclusion: gaijin screwed up the entire tree :)
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Yeah good opportunity to add ABC sub tech tree idea.
can the Merkava stop anything more than a 3BM42 tho?
Which variant?
uh MK3 and MK4?
The Mk.3 has zero survivability. The Mk.4s turret can withstand it, albeit only in certain places, however the hull is completely vulnerable to it, as I’ve seen 30mm APFSDS pen the Merk Mk.4’s hull…
i mean irl
Oh IRL heck yeah.
For the Mk.3:
The UFP might be a little bit in the weaker end in terms of KE protection, but the turret armor should be more than enough to withstand most kinetic threats it faces, with the only notable weak-points being the breech, turret side, and LFP. The turret ring may also be notable but I’m unsure. All I know is that the
For the Mk.4:
It’s a bloody 80 ton beast with modern SLERA/Self-Limiting-ERA (not yet present in game, currently only has NERA). The turret should be immune to all of the present kinetic threats ingame, minus the LOSAT at range, and likely have around 500-550mm of KE protection, and that’s not including the engine and cabin walls behind it. It would also be immune to every present Chemical threat (minus top down like spike or maverick) found ingame on the hull and turret front, minus the driver which can notably be taken out if hit, since the armor in front of him isn’t more plentiful.
The engine itself and the UFP/LFP are so large that there isn’t a chemical threat ingame that can make it through the hull and pass all the way through the long engine deck to the crew without losing all its power, but the driver didn’t really have an engine in front so he’s quite more vulnerable in that aspect.
I would image the UFP being immune to 3BM60, with the exception of higher pen rounds like the DM53(120) and 152mm-APFSDS rounds cleaving through it, while most rounds can go right through the LFP without much issue. The turret should be armored more like a Leopard 2A5/7 turret, and the lower breech being the only real weakness, with the added exception of the turret side being able to withstand significantly more KE and Chemical pen then the Leoaprd 2’s turret side. Additionally, the Hull sides should provide quite a lot of protection against Chemcial threats, given it’s also filled with SLERA besides the road wheels and top of the hull sides (only top of the hull sides ingame).
There’s a couple threads about it, and an interesting twitter thread I may be able to find about how to take down a Merkava given its amazing armor.
Tbh, a sub tree like this would actually suck! There’s no point in adding a sub tree for Japan anyways. So -1!
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idk dude, is there any source regarding the armor to back it off? seems a bit too weird overall
But… it’s a subtree proposal for Israel…?
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The armor is classified, but images and sources can tell us what we need to know about it.
Would you like some links my friend? (I can grab them tmrw, gotta hit the hay rn)
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yeah could be cool i would like to read and see more about this
Twitter thread I found highly interesting. Not a sources, but it has most things right and should give you a rough idea about it.
https://x.com/T_90_M_2024/status/1841518335885717546
An interesting thread regarding the Mk.4/Mk.3 armor.
Current threads relating to the Merkava Mk.4’s weight and armor inaccuracies.
Highly recommend reading through the Merkava forums threads, as some of the people who are a part of the threads have even served on these vehicles, while others are extremely familiar with them. You’ll se a thing or two in there you might not see elsewhere.
Bug reports:
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/1eYOWMuJWJ3n
(Edit: couldn’t sleep, :P)
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It seems to me like a pretty cool subtree mostly made up of unique vehicles, how would it suck?
The suggestion is about Israel. Japan is only brought up here for rumors that it will be added there, not because that’s what’s been suggested here.
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