uh…huh? how are they 5.0?
YEs it would. It was back when 4.7 was a Jumbo br, it will be fine now. Literal german unskill makes it sit lower than Chi-Nu2 being practically the same vehicle
moving tank up in BR because “it will make a better lineup” while nothing keeps you from picking it as it is and even being given advantage of 1) lower SP cost to drive 2) reward bonus for destyouing a higher br vehicles is diabolical xD
well the stug IIIG does have all of its armor on front plate with little concern for the turret since it doesnt have one the PZ IV Gs turret is very un armored its just the front plate
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ah but same lack of turret reqires STUG to show all its hull to shoot, which limits the positions you can play.
this is true is well everything has a trade off for PZ IV G u trade armor for a turret
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I do believe all Pz IVs should move up in BR. While i can get around leaving F2 at 3.3 (still why should i if Chi-Nu 2 is 4.3, Firefly is 4.7 and Avenger also 4.7), but others certanly have to get higher BR. 3.7 minimum for the G, 4.0 for the J and 4,3 for H sound fair enough
the G at 4.0 is overtiering it a bit 3.7 seems fine for it
3.3 F2 3.7 G 4.0 J 4.0 H as i wouldnt move the H up unless ya move up the M4A2 or T34 STZ which both can counter it in a 1v1
J at 4.0. Tho maybe they should switch places with G, idk. J is a good tank, which lacks turret traverse speed only.
J is where it is cause compression cause its worse than PZ IV H but it has better armor than PZ IV G ideally it be in between the 2
anything can counter G at 1v1 depending on the rules and terrain. And anything cant by the same rules.
I dont see why it should stay there. Most tanks at 3.3 have closely bad armor but much worse cannon. Cromvell, Chi-Nu 1, Leoncello, ect :/
I can get around G and J being 3,7 but i would rather have them all at 4.0, and H at 4.3 as the best one of them
you can 50 cal it its literally fotter against anything with something bigger than a 7.62
it can be penned by reserve BT and get one tapped frontally its pretty sad of a tank
The Pz. IV H is a worse tank than the M4A2 and can generally be borked by the T-34 1942. It can work at 4.0, but it shouldn’t be placed at 4.3.
The Avenger and Fireflies are higher because the former is far more mobile and the latter is far more armored while both of them have better guns.
The Chi-Nu II is higher because minor nation bias, but it does have an objectively better gun though at the cost of having far worse armor and even worse mobility.
You can look at that in a different way: J trades turret traverse for better protection of the turret, thus it should sit at the same BR as G. At least thats how i look on that.
idk i think mobility feels roughly similar for chi nu II there pretty sluggish
Definetly, as M4A2 is argubly the most OP tank at 4.0
So does the 34-42, 34-42 STZ, 34-42E and even M4 Firefly and Chi-Nu-2 are the easy target for Panzer IV.
Its not a fair reason to keep it at that low BR.
THey have bad reverse, they dont have APHE and they have worse reload. Firefly also has worse depression. Thus i doubt you can say its all in all better. And the Avenger can be clapped with 75mm HE :/ it operates same protection as IV H but better mobility.
Im not saying they should be the same BR but definetlu having then .7 br higher is hilarious.
It has quite unnoticeable difference in mobility with F2 while having same protection level and objectively better gun, but sits an entire 1.0 br higher which isnt in any way fair considering its gun ‘betterness’. Its crazy how it CAN perform well at 4.3-4.7 but somehow not Pz IVs?
The Chi-Nu II is overtiered and I already stated that in my previous post.
The 17-pdr. is just better than the Kw. K. 40. Them lacking APHE isn’t a hindrance when they can easily slice through anything they face with superior ballistics over the 7,5 cm, and it isn’t as if they do not damage. They’re full-caliber solid shot and can easily OHK tanks. What they struggle with are uptiers where Panthers can easily deal with them, but the same can be said for heavy tanks that the Pz. IV faces in uptiers.
There’s no reason for any of the Pz. IVs to be moved. They’re fine where they are.
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Thats not my Point! Well, at least to some extent. I do believe it is great where it is, so it doesnt need to move. However them Panzers that are something something same with it need to be higher.
The reasoning behind this is pretty obvious: i dont like the glass cannon route making the machine undertiered. If it keeps being glass even at lower BRs, then make it higher just enough to make it meet some enemies that arent the easy target anymore. That way lower BR tanks that work on armor wont feel overtiered.
uuuugh, as much as i love the 17pdr, its not like its “just bettah” overall. Look at the Achilles that is 3.3 with it. Surely if its overall better, it should be at 3.7 minumum as US M1 isnt the greatest gun either.
The KWK40 still packs a punch at 4.3 and even 4.7 (well at least i took panzers there to prove myself worth), with a KV-1 chassis it is even good at 5.0. I do believe the 190 pen with AP instead of 150 pen with APHE is a great trade tho.
The reasoning behind this is pretty obvious: i dont like the glass cannon route making the machine undertiered.
But it isn’t undertiered. It’s a glass cannon relative to other medium tanks at its BR, but you’re exaggerating its lack of armor. The Pz. IV H and J are armored enough that a lot of 2.0-3.0 tanks can’t effectively deal with it and it can withstand Russian 76-mm and American 75-mm in some places. The Pz. IV G is similarly armored, though is far more vulnerable against HEAT, while the F2 is still armored enough that it can withstand autocannons without being oppressive against 2.0-3.0 tanks.
The KWK40 still packs a punch at 4.3 and even 4.7 (well at least i took panzers there to prove myself worth), with a KV-1 chassis it is even good at 5.0.
It isn’t good at 5.0. The KV-1 chassis is just good. The gun is average at that BR. The KV-1 1941 is 4.7 but its gun is absolute crap, it’s just that the armor is really good and that’s the same case for the KW I C. The Pz. IV chassis are crap and aren’t suitable for 4.0-5.0.
exactly! Its “JUST ENOUGH” to deal with every enemy you meet at 5.7, as M3 75mm is “just ehough” to deal with anything you meet propt to 5.0
THen them IV H, J are capable of whistanding 76mm shots from 4.0 T-34 while having in any terms a better gun and worse mobility.
And them T-34s are 4.0 and H are 3,7, which is just unfair! THey arent that bad to be lower than T-34.