You drive around with 50mm loaded with HE? You can clap.Pz IV with Soviet 45mm APHE from 500m.
Thing is, you have to switch to HE, which takes 2s to get to 900m and hit, which is not easy with crap ballistics.
Short range I just don’t see how Pz IV would be surviving past 1st shot anyway. And before he reloads to HE… And if any of your teammates are around, he won’t even try.
Being open top is not a huge problem and I take the superior gun (reload and damage wise) and armor over 10mm roof of Pz IV.
And seriously, if Chi Nu is really all you can find - how is Chi Nu doing compared to M4A1 Sherman? Is it only slightly worse than 3.7 Chaffee? This topic is about moving Pz IV up.
One has to be an idiot to assume Pz IV at 3.3 and 3.7 is somehow THE problem with early game balance.
I usually drive with at least two of them in the bag, and load it to clap M10 hitting practically everywhere is easy and fast enough with those caliber.
You drive with 50mm HE loaded? Well, GL HF :D :D
I love people with low caliber HE, yours sincerely, Chaffee user.
Again, one has to be a idiot to consider Pz IV at 3.3 and 3.7 to be THE problem of early game balance.
It’s like saying Bf 109 F4 is OP at 4.0 and has to go UP, LMAO.
Most undertiered nation in game.
Meanwhile 105mm M4 at 3.0, M4A1 at 3.3, M4 at 3.7, M4A2 at 4.0, Chaffee at 3.7, 76mm gocart at 4.3, Fireball at 4.3, XP-55 at 4.3, F8F around reserve tier, P-38 family all casually exist.
Maybe Germany is undertiered at other BRs but 3.3-4.0 it is not.
And the topic is about moving Pz IV up.
IMO it’s a pointless endeavour.
P-40 vs Pz IV is not bad. P-40 can absolutely nuke Pz IV. Problem of P-40 is…
…it’s getting roflstomped by Shermans and Composito and Chaffee are just above it, so why even play P40?
Well, guess what, Pz IV is the only guy with a gun that can hurt M4A1 Sherman without much aiming. But it will lose 1 v 1 against it because M4A1 is overal a better tank.
In it’s current state I’d agree.
Thankfully, its not totally correctly implemented atm and has some room for improvements.
It should have a 6th crewmen. His whole job was to pull the rip cord to fire the gun. Not the most space efficient approach irl, but that does give it extra survivability in-game.
Reload should also be 5 seconds. It literally has a NATO style bustle rack decades before it was cool, while the Pz.IV F2 has zero rounds stored in the turret, not to mention the Chi-Nu’s rounds are smaller and lighter.
The turret traverse is a point of contention since it did have powered traverse, but the speed is currently not known apart from being “fast”. It’s quite plausible that’s in the same ball park of the standard Pz.IV’s, maybe higher.
The speed and gearing is also a matter of ongoing research. I wouldn’t be surprised if the whole Ho-I/Chi-He family had pretty high reverse like the earlier Chi-Ha.
The latter two are kinda ambiguous, but the first two should be implemented.
Anything can nuke PzIV, thats no doubt to me. Problem is, P40 uses same ammunition Pz IV F1 uses at 2.3 being 3.3. Its not like its a huge problem, but shooting HEATs while every other tank shoots APHEs with same or better pen… IV F1 has 3s reload time so its no problem to it. But the P.40s reload time is regular, or even a bit worse than regular, im not entirely sure as i have good crew on it.
Plus P40 isnt mobile, has slow turret. Tho i liked it for its armor. and good APHE at the start, but then it got nerfed so only HEATs as for now.
P40 is 3.3 and M4 is 3.7, and i have several 3.3-3.0 tanks in italy that i like :3
They arent OP, they arent even top 3 of best tanks. I just like them, cute italian panzers :3
Being honest, i would rather choose IV G than M4A1. But if its IV G against M4 (basic) i`d choose M4.
It fires HEAT at higher velocity, making it easier to hit at range. At 500-600m no other tank can pen 100mm.
Also you can easily main APHE and either aim a bit more carefully from the front or simply hit a vehicle in the side, to completely nuke it with overpressure APHE.
At close range it’s not difficult to hit weakspots while at range the armor is quite effective to stop other tank shells.
I dont think that this higher velocity is anything but real deal. IV F2 shoots APHE with better velocity anyway. Them HEATs are only good as they can pen T-34s and M4s hulls pretty reliably.
nah not today. It has less pen than L11`s early APHE which is in fact PRETTY bad. Especially as it plays not against Germans, but against Shermans almost all the time.
As i already said, the P.40 lacks same mobility as 34-40, and plays mostly against them and shermans, its just unreliable low pen with a long reload. Tho when its in a downtier, maybe switching to mostly APHE is a good choice. I believe it is a good strategy. Early M4A1 isnt much of a threat anyway, even with APHEs. And the T-34-40 is dealable with it, and some HEATs in the back for it also is a strategy.
It reloads in 5s compare to the T-34 1940 with 7.1s.
Mobility is the same as Pz IVs or Sherman’s.
So it’s less mobile than a T-34 1940 but also more flexible.
It can’t compete with a Sherman at close range but it’s still a threat to many tanks at range.
And 5s reload with the ability to kill a vehicle in one shot is also quite effective at close range or while flanking.
Look, as much as I jest that all the Pz IV’s should go up. Really I think it should look something like:
3.3: Pz IV F2
3.7: Pz IV G / Pz IV J
4.0: Pz IV H
In saying that though, I think the real problem is just compression everywhere. For new players going from 1.0 to 2.7 is fairly balanced (with a couple of exceptions) but 2.0 into 3.0, 2.3 into 3.0 & 3.3, and 2.7 into 3.3 & 3.7 is crazy.
Many 2.0 - 2.7 vehicles basically treat Sherman’s, T-34’s, and some Pz’s like Jumbo’s. Like a Valentine Mk I or Matilda II that can’t flank has a lot of trouble penetrating these vehicles without weakspot sniping.
Outside of what I outlined above, the Pz IV’s should only go above my suggested if other vehicles go up via decompression. For example if the M4A1 goes up to 3.7 then so should the Pz IV F2.
M4A1 has 12 degrees gun depression and stabiliser and penetrates IV G without aiming and outreloads it and deals way more damage when it penetrates. Turret is not great, but it can bounce a lot from non-German guns.
M4A1 is the better tank IMO.
And while P40s APHE is not great, 79mm penetration is not THAT bad.
It’s enough for T-34-41 turret front shots (it makes little difference if you have 70 or 200 penetration, you’ll bounce mostly on the same spots), Pz IV, it may struggle vs Pz III, but hey, at least something struggles vs Pz III other than Soviet L11 gun lol
hence the hull. Using sherman that can be easilly killed with SPAA in the hull is not what i want from my Sherman. So id choose a better pen over stab and reload.