I’m sorry, but this is pretty laughable. The R-77M has a maximum range of 193km, a lock range of 25km, and maneuverability on par with the R-77 (so able to hit targets maneuvering at 12G, and an overload 40G or more). The first AIM-120 to have a similar range and possibly similar lock is the AIM-120C8/D, which it has a maximum range of 160-180km, improved lock range over the AIM-120C-5 (although people in the Modern ARH thread haven’t provided sources to say how much more), and even then it still has less overload/maneuverability.
Suggesting the R-37 also is comparable to the AIM-120C-5 is crazy, the R-37 goes Mach 5 or 6, has a maximum range of 300km, has a 40km lock range, and at least 25G of maneuverability. It’s literally just an R-27ER on steroids, to which the R-27ER will still reach a target in BVR before any AIM-120 (to my knowledge). The real equivalent to the R37 is the AIM-260 JATM, although we only know that it can go Mach 5 and has a range of 200-260km+.
My man the R-27ER is better in every way except for two things only: the type of seeker and the guidance time, of which it still has a guidance time of 60 seconds. Its got 1.8M more maximum velocity, its got near 10km more lock range, all while having the same overload. All you need to do with the R-27ER to beat the AIM-120 is fire within the first third (32% to be exact) of its flight time.
Why? What does any AIM-120 before then have that makes them comparable to the R-77?
In what way? It’s not maneuverability, not lock range, not maximum velocity, not minimum range - literally the only the the AIM-120C-5 has going for it is 25km more launch range. If you pick any AIM-120 variant before the AIM-120C-5, then that single advantage in terms of launch range is gone.
The mere fact that you think that wikipedia knows anything reliably in regard to these missiles that are still in use is laughable.R27ER has head on that big range that you are talking about but at least according to wikipedia in rear aspect it drops down to 16km which is AIM 7 territory. That implies also that R27ER doesnt really like to turn much and due to its huge wings is better suited for high alt. 8km+.
Yes AIM 120s are better in that you can launch and go cold immediately. If paired with lets say a grinder you are literally untouchable because your opponent is constantly evading and you can push him however you want.
If the enemy gets the same capability than its a different story and needs to be played differently but since Air RB is a shitfest anyway I dont even see the point in me arguing over all this because not a single living soul in WT will use any of the rockets as it should
Oh and R37, yeah that was a joke dont worry
Oh one more thing. F16C lets say block 50 can track 6 targets at the same time and shoot at iirc 3 at the same time whereas Fox 1 is STT ONLY! One more reason why your arguement is really bad on every possible level.
Tf, I was referencing the thread dedicated to discussing Modern ARH’s. I’m literally just referencing what is properly sourced in that thread.
My man I was talking about maximum range, as in you shoot it straight forward and it goes until it runs out of battery/guidance. Any missile in rear aspect will have a ‘lower range’ because the relative distance is smaller because the missile and target are moving in the same direction. The AIM-7F/M is similar, it has a maximum range of 100km in a straight line, which is what maximum range is.
But if an R-27ER is shot within the first third of the flight time of the AIM-120 then it will hit first, and since the R-27ER can lock first it will have the advantage in that way as well. Adding any AIM-120’s before the AIM-120C-5 should be done without adding any other ARH missiles besides ones actually comparable to them (i.e. literally none of the Russian ARH missiles), and they should’ve been in the game since the R-27ER was added.
Shooting anything at max range and the probability of it killing anything is pretty much zero so thats out of question. Lets say 2 F16s vs 2 Su27s at 7km alt. at about 80km from eachother they both fire (1 aircraft each). F16 goes cold after launch and Su27 cranks but keeps his alt. second F16 aims for the first Su27 and pushes him. Thats when second Su27 goes for the second F16 and first F16 goes for the second Su27. First Su27 is being pushed by the second F16 and second Su27 gets pushed by the first F16. It all ends in two Su27s running away from the F16s because F16 can disengage but the missile due to being Fox 3 keeps the last known data of position of enemy aircraft and goes live when at certain distance from the last known data. That also starts blaring all sorts of warnings in the 27 and if oyu are still in the area it will lock on you and smack your ass back to Leningrad
What you’re saying about max range is true, it’s just that maximum range can still be used as a measure of effective combat radius as you can use it to compare how much different missiles can burn/loft.
The R-27ER also has datalink, so it has some ability to do the same.
If you’re dying to any radar missile consistently in 2024, I can teach you the ways of not.
You shouldn’t be dying to AIM-7 or R-27ER at a rate closer than 20:1. 20 IR missiles to 1 radar missile.
No it won’t.
The person defeats the R-27ER then launches their AIM-120 at a closer range.
In that case Phoenix is the best missile in the game?`
Ofc it has datalink but the missile doesnt go live on its own and looks for targets like any Fox 3 missile. YOU BREAK THE LOCK AND THE ROCKET IS DEAD. Literally became a GRAD missile nothing more.
Dont even need to defeat it before launch. Just dump it at max range, he has to go hot to to guide the missile, you dont although can keep guiding the missile for some time until his rocket gets to you and you can bleed his rockets energy much more effectively than him your AIM
Lol how does purely combat range decide what the best missile in the game is? Last I checked the AIM-54’s had the second-lowest overload for any US missile and still only going barely above Mach 4.
Except the R-27ER can keep going for a bit, long enough for the launch aircraft to guide the SARH again.
This is true, the R-27ER (if launched within the first third of the AIM-120’s flight time) will hit first, leaving enough time to defeat the AIM-120. The advantage for the R-27ER is even greater if it shoots first.
All I do is point out publicly available information because that is what Gaijin goes off of for balance, whether or not Russian armed forces overstate or US forces understate their capabilities is not important (although I do think Russian tech in reality isn’t as good, I mean obviously seeing their probability-of-kill statistics).
I’d like to see what metrics you’re basing that off of, it’s certainly not lock range or maximum velocity
R-27ER gives a constant launch warning, AIM-120 doesn’t until 16km or less or unless the player chooses to disengage their TWS.
You’re not using all the data because you keep forgetting that R-27ER IS NOT AN ACTIVE RADAR HOMING MISSILE.
AIM-120B is R-77 equivalent, and both are drastically superior to R-27ERs.
There’s good reason Russia retired the 27ER when they retired the last of the non-R-77 jets.
Well yes. However, this myth that R-27ER and late AIM-7s were designed to face R-77 and AIM-120 is getting old.
The ONLY reason AIM-7 and R-27 got further development is legacy support for platforms that cannot fire AARHs; AKA profit.
That’s not true though? In cases of both AIM-7P and R-27ER the issue was uncertainty about the progress and procurement of the ARH missiles. The actual upgrades for R-77 or AIM-120 compatibility were not difficult, and even with Russia’s issues it started upgrading old Su-27S and Mig-29 9-13 to standards that were R-77 compatible long before actual procurement of R-77-1 began in significant numbers. The same thing was true of the USA, AIM-120 compatible F-15C, F-16C, and F-18C entered service in the 80’s before AIM-120A in the early 90’s
