Should EF2000s get AIM120C5?

[H_ngma]

Well youre unpopular AND incorrect so theres that

[PScomet13]

One example is the f18 from sweden and usa

The sweadish one don’t even have hmd but perfrom way better because only dedicated swedish player plays it. Hence less player count.

[DANI6904]

that’s right but still.

[PScomet13]

I don’t want to get bashed as an usa main lol, so I use a obscure nation such as isreal to provide a stronger argument.

[darabyte]

@PScomet13

so um by your logic higher kda means better player. Then why is the ef2000 like 2% more WR then f15I from isreal despite the same kdr? How come a minor nation’s plane is performing worse then a major nation like germany? Is it perhapse a plane is better then the other one? I don’t know man or is every german air rb player just insainly good at the game? Idk how it works but if you play usa made planes do you just automatically become worse? As players is not stuck to playing 1 nation the whole time.

Because KDR != K/S.
You’re fundamentally understanding my argument here.
Kills per spawn indicate that Eurofighter players do, on average, more kills per SPAWN. That automatically excludes passive gameplay or KDR padding.
KDR does not mean much when you can simply steal a lucky kill or two, RTB, and J out.
Nor does correlation equals causation; less-played vehicles do not inherently mean more skilled players play it.

Refer to this:

@darabyte

Just because a plane like the British Typhoon has low usage doesn’t mean it has the same quality pilot pool as the Rafale. Many nations’ 14.0s are either underwhelming or not meta-relevant, so fewer players — and even fewer high-skill players — bother flying them at all. They’re abandoned, not curated.
The Rafale, on the other hand, is actively pursued.

[PScomet13]

of course this does not always work. In statistic there is the minimum significant data size. One counter example is this

I mean I guess british air player are just too good??? (I blame them for making my favourite plane the sea vixen 9.0)

[darabyte]

“Incorrect” is when you tell me I’m wrong without stating why.
Comparing me to Spookstoon does not help your case at all lol.
I don’t care for a popularity contest. I do care however for a productive conversation.

[PScomet13]

Um so the italian ef have more K/S, how come it have lower winrate then?

[H_ngma]

The winrate is different but look at KpS and KpD, theyre much closer than what the winrate would have you think. Rn the stats only show that the much smaller amount of Swedes win more often but with similar performance

[darabyte]

@PScomet13

Yes but by that logic shouldn’t the plane with 800k game played are being played by better players? Since 800k players are way less then 7mil, that means there is more “average” player to “good” player ration in the plane that have 7mil right?

Refer to:

@darabyte

Just because a plane like the British Typhoon has low usage doesn’t mean it has the same quality pilot pool as the Rafale. Many nations’ 14.0s are either underwhelming or not meta-relevant, so fewer players — and even fewer high-skill players — bother flying them at all. They’re abandoned, not curated.

[PScomet13]

Ok but it still have way higher usage then the italian one and the isreali f15I, so like how come?

[_Renzo]

@H_ngma

Ofc it might fix the loop, if all 14.0s are on a similar powerlevel, good players wont feel the need as much to play the Rafale

This will never fully happen, because the F/A-18C will still be mid as fuck and miles behind the EFT and Rafale.

If they added the C-5 exclusively to the Hornet it would have been brought up to a closer level to the Rafale/EFT, but now that both the F-15E/I and EFTs all also get it, it just cancels it out and leaves the Hornet in the same position.

[H_ngma]

Bru are you incapable of reading? There are multiple comments stating why you are wrong or at least only partially right on the other side you have brought 0 evidence that Rafale players are just great players other than “Yes every good player is a meta slave, i am very smart”

[darabyte]

Because that W/R stops being an individual metric, and becomes a collective one.
Meaning, you depend on the average player that fights alongside you being good in order to achieve the win.
And then again, that is not a 1:1 comparison. It’s a rough aproximation.

[H_ngma]

True but this is not about saving the Hornet, its about bringing the powerlevel of 14.0 closer together in general

[quartas121]

The clear solution is AIM-120D on the hornet /s

[PScomet13]

Ok by that logic, the russian kh38 lobbers who just grind out the su30 for Ground RB are also insainly good at air combat then?

Like how come these very dominate nation just coincidentally have better player pool? Like are you telling me war thunder on your server locks most player into a single tectree? Because most of the player I see play multiple different one

[_Renzo]

well the Hornet is 14.0 and it’s powerlevel isn’t being brought closer to the other aircraft.

I think you mean: bringing the powerlevel of the EFT, Rafale and F-15E/I closer together.

[Alpharius11348]

yeah so adding it to the second best preforming 14.0 is one of the worst things they could have done

[darabyte]

Okay, then. I’ll just compile everything that I said thus far.
Refute each and everyone of those points.

@H_ngma

There are multiple comments stating why you are wrong or at least only partially right on the other side you have brought 0 evidence that Rafale players are just great players other than “Yes every good player is a meta slave, i am very smart”

1. Kill/Death Ratio (KDR) vs. Kill-per-Spawn (K/S) and Deaths-per-Spawn

• Raw Numbers (Example Figures):
  • Rafale C: KDR ≈ 1.55
  • F-15E: KDR ≈ 0.97
  • Rafale: K/S ≈ 1.14, Deaths/Spawn ≈ 0.74
  • F-15E: K/S ≈ 0.78, Deaths/Spawn ≈ 0.81
• Why It’s Not Just the Jet:
  1. High K/S combined with low Deaths/Spawn means Rafale pilots are both scoring kills and surviving more often per sortie. A truly “overpowered” aircraft might help you rack up kills, but it cannot as reliably keep even an average pilot alive at that same rate—especially in mixed-skill matchmaking.
  2. Even if two airframes have similar maneuvering and BVR tools, a skilled pilot will consistently outplay other pilots.
• Correlation to Stronger Players:
  • Sustained Efficiency: A K/S of ~1.14 implies that, on average, the pilot is securing a kill every time they respawn, which typically requires a stronger pilot.
  • Survivability Under Pressure: A death rate of ~0.74 per spawn means they survive ~26% longer per life than a pilot à la F-15E with ~0.81 deaths/spawn, indicating they’re consistently avoiding mistakes that lead to being shot down—again, a hallmark of higher skill.

2. Win Rate (W/R)

• Raw Numbers (Example Figures):
  • Rafale C: W/R ≈ 63.5%
  • F-15E: W/R ≈ 47.3%
• Why It’s Not Just the Jet:
  1. Win Rate depends on team performance and objectives as well as individual contribution. Even a strong jet can’t guarantee a high W/R if the pilot making poor decisions drops the ball for the squad.
  2. A higher W/R for Rafale crews indicates they’re:
  • Participating in favorable engagements,
  • Successfully completing objectives,
    *Being better team player.
• Correlation to Stronger Players:
  • Objective-Focused Gameplay: Rafale pilots with a ~63% W/R are consistently delivering on match objectives and coordinating with teammates, which implies… you said it, a better player.
  • Adaptation to Dynamic Matches: A “meta” jet flown by average players might still post a win rate in the mid-40s, but the extra ~15–20% bump strongly suggests the pilot base is making smarter decisions, not just benefiting from the jet’s envelope.

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3. Silver Lions (SL) Earned per Game

• Raw Numbers (Example Figures):
  • Rafale: ≈ 8,431 SL/game
  • F-15E: ≈ 6,816 SL/game
• Why It’s Not Just the Jet:
  1. SL earnings combine kill count, ground-strike damage, match survival time, and mission completion bonuses. An “overpowered” aircraft might net extra kills, but it cannot independently ensure multiple kills or prolonged survivability.
  2. A higher SL/game indicates a pilot is:
  • Scoring kills efficiently,
  • Completing ground-target strafes or bombing runs,
  • Surviving until endgame for bonus multipliers.
    All of those require deliberate, skillful play, not just “a better radar” or “faster acceleration.”
• Correlation to Stronger Players:
  • Consistent Multi-Role Performance: Rafale pilots aren’t simply locking and yanking BVR targets; they’re also switching to ground-strikes or CAP (Combat Air Patrol) as needed, which a less experienced pilot might fumble.
  • Extended Match Impact: Surviving long enough to accrue SL bonuses (airborne time, objective capture) reflects strong situational control—once again pointing to pilot skill beyond plane stats.

4. Tech Tree Self-Selection and Playrate Patterns

• Observation:
  • Rafale’s playrate is lower than some 14.0 peer jets (e.g., F-15E) but yields disproportionately higher performance metrics.
  • Other jets with similarly low usage (British/Italian Typhoon, Swedish F-18) do not show the same statistical dominance.
• Why It’s Not Just the Jet:
  1. If low playrate automatically meant “elite pilots only,” then every underused 14.0 should post similar KDR/W/R or SL/game numbers. They don’t. This inconsistency rules out “low usage = high skill” as a blanket explanation.
  2. The Rafale’s combination of playrate + high metrics implies a self-selection funnel: only players willing to grind the French line (knowing it’s a meta juggernaut) end up flying it. In contrast, minor 14.0 jets attract few players at all—and those are often casual testers, not high-skill mains.
• Correlation to Stronger Players:
  • Meta Gravity: Rafale mains are actively chasing that jet because they expect it to be good. Their retention (they stay playing and mastering it) is higher than someone who unlocked an underwhelming 14.0, flew it once, then dropped it.
  • Imbalance of Effort vs. Reward: The amount of “real money or grind hours” required to unlock the Rafale filters out casual drop-ins—leaving mostly committed, experienced pilots.

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There you go.
All my arguments.