Should EF2000s get AIM120C5?

[An_Pigeon]

@_Renzo

Close range it’s easily second place. flight performance wise it might be slightly ahead of the Rafale (unsure of that myself), but the Rafale’s micas are just so good at this type of combat.

Im talking sheer flight performance, especially for dogfighting, not missiles.

@_Renzo

Long range I would also place the EFT either second or third best

It cant be when its radar barely has a lock, I cannot use it outwith the HMD mode for it anymore, it just isn’t worth making the KD worse.

@_Renzo

but the EFT has the same missiles and the only plane that can get close to the F-15E in bvr flight performance,

has the same missiles, but a substantially worse radar, the F15E can lock, launch, and crank, before you even get a lock with TWS or even the standard Search PD.

@_Renzo

the added bonus that it can go into a notch way easier and quicker than the F-15E. The F/A-18C and Rafale are ass at long range bvr so it’s within top 3 already. 2nd or 3rd place depends on if you value flight performance (EFT) or radar and missile count (Su-30SM) more.

okay ima say this one more time.

• it doesn’t matter if it can notch quicker, the EF2000 cannot respond if its radar does not work properly, its something i was in denial about when I got it.

I’ve had to play it as if its the old damn meta just to bring my KD to near positive.

• 2 the Aim120s are fatnastic missiles, when they can get a lock hell I couldn’t even guide one in manually the other day with the EF2000 radar locked on , it just broke lock n couldn’t find the target. and no one was notching, neither of us had changed position it just, lost lock.

@_Renzo

The F/A-18C and Rafale are ass at long range bvr so it’s within top 3 already. 2nd or 3rd place depends on if you value flight performance (EFT) or radar and missile count (Su-30SM) more.

the rafale beats it in BRV as it can get a sustained TWS track far, far easier, even if MICAs are worse, the fact the EF2000 cant launch means its objectively not going to be able to respond.

@_Renzo

I just hate it when people act like it’s one of the worst 14.0 while it’s easily among the best.

If it didnt get worse radar than some 13.7s then people wouldn’t be saying this.

[H_ngma]

Yeah better radar and double(!) the missile count and better IR missiles, sure it loses a 1v1 if you dont get a good R73 shot but missile count and radar are much more useful in the current meta

[H_ngma]

@_Renzo

The EFT can hold it’s own against the Su-30SM in bvr

no it cant, the SU can literally shoot every single fox3 of the EF and have 6 left and all that with a radar than can actually track those missiles. Sure the EF can fire more lethal shots but very inconsistenly thanks to the radar

[_Renzo]

@An_Pigeon

It cant be when its radar barely has a lock, I cannot use it outwith the HMD mode for it anymore, it just isn’t worth making the KD worse.

idk I have flown both the F-15E/I and FGR.4 and I have had similar experiences with both their radars. Maybe I just got unlucky though.

[Shay]

There are two main issues with the CAPTOR-M:
-TWS detects targets significantly less than it should (even those that the Blue Vixen easily picks up).
-Even when the target doesn’t notch or chaff and everything else is fine, the lock will sometimes randomly break.

It’s good when it works, sure, but the problem is that it doesn’t work more than it does.

[An_Pigeon]

@Shay-

-Even when the target doesn’t notch or chaff and everything else is fine, the lock will sometimes randomly break.

Its been a nightmare man tbh

[Fernando_alonso]

@Shay-

It’s good when it works, sure, but the problem is that it doesn’t work more than it does.

I have a higher chance of winning a lottery than the captor m working properly

[Shay]

The Typhoon is my favourite fighter, so I got through it and spaded it, but man, sometimes it was insane what the radar would do.

[MythicPi]

@darabyte

You’re just reinforcing the current meta (and worsening it for lower planes) instead of shaking them up.

Arguably not. I made this point before, but the meta is the Rafale. Nothing else competes. All other 14.0’s are relatively close in performance according to statshark as long as you ignore the Rafale.

May 2025 14.0 jet stats:

Comparing KDR/KPS deltas;

EFT (average): 1.03/0.82
F/A-18C (overall): 0.93/0.78
F-15E/I (average): 0.85/0.68

Rafale vs EFT FGR.4 (#1 vs #2 individual jets): 0.54/0.33 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs Su-30SM (#1 vs #2 avg jets): 0.57/0.29 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs EFT overall (#1 vs #3 avg jets): 0.76/0.46 in favor of Rafale
Rafale vs F15E/I (#1 vs last place individual and avg jets): 0.94/0.60 in favor of Rafale

EFT FGR.4 vs F-15E/I (#2 vs last place individual jets): 0.40/0.27 in favor of FGR.4
EFT overall vs F-15E/I (#3 vs last place avg jets): 0.18/0.14 in favor of the EFT
Su-30SM vs F-15E/I (#2 vs last place avg jets): 0.37/0.31 in favor of the Su-30SM

As can be seen above, the difference in performance between all 14.0 jets is smaller than the difference in performance between the Rafale and the second best 14.0 jet.

With the decision to add the AIM-120C-5 to the EFT, it means all 14.0’s barring the Su-30SM and Rafale are getting the AIM-120C-5, which means that the actual relative performance difference at 14.0 will not change for anyone but the Rafale and Su-30SM. Throwing in the 13.7 jets number in as well, most of the 14.0 jets dont actually perform any better than the 13.7 ones in KDR/KPS either.

In theory, the addition of the AIM-120C-5 on almost all 14.0 jets is likely to try to have the 14.0 jets actually perform better than the 13.7 ones. Cuz as it stands (stats-wise at least) all 14.0 jets could technically be 13.7 (except the rafale, which should be 14.7 minimum).

The AIM-120C-5 has also been nerfed into the ground btw, so now its basicly just an AIM-120A+. Time to target from testing is basically the exact same as the AIM-120A currently in-game, but it trades a bit more energy for worse maneuverability.

I could be wrong on this last part cuz I haven’t tested this yet, but it could even be argued that the current AIM-120A is better simply due to the fact that the 120C-5 just offers a marginal improvement in what the 120A is already good at (long range energy) at the expense of making the massive flaw in the AIM-120A worse (even worse turning capability), with no other apparent advantage atm from what I can tell.

[LuaJa]

2.46.0.25 Dev Server

[Shay]

Noice.

[LuaJa]

Dataminers are probably asleep rn, gotta wait for them to wake up or wait for gzabi’s github to update for more details on any missile changes

[H_ngma]

Wouldnt the may stats indicate that the SU30 is slightly overperforming as well since its KDR/KPS is so close to the british Typhoon’s but with a much much higher playrate which usually tanks performance

[gszabi99]

@LuaJa_

Dataminers are probably asleep rn

It’s noon (or around noon) in Europe right now.

[MythicPi]

Probably, but I wouldnt consider any 14.0 jet “overperforming” other than the Rafale rn.

Personally, I think the most obvious option by a country mile is either nerfing the Rafale, with the most obvious choice in doing so being removal of 2 of its AAM’s and/or its HMD (would be historical to a French F3R). Another option would be punting it up to a new BR ceiling (14.7/15.0), which is something gaijin has done in the past with massively overperforming jets, but they never only did it for 1 jet, so that might not be an option atm.

I dont think its reasonable to nerf any of the other 14.0’s in air to air performance until the Rafales performance is reigned in in some way, and the AIM-120C-5 is super unlikely to be the answer if it keeps its current stats.

[LuaJa]

Oh ok, Good afternoon Gszabi

[H_ngma]

Overperforming was a bad word choice by me, i meant it more as in that the power of the SU30 seems much more accessible than the power of the EF and the F15 for some reason.
But yeah the Rafale-Domination is just bonkers but looking at how popular the Mirage F1C-200 is rn i dont think Gaijin will nerf it lol

[MythicPi]

@H_ngma

the power of the SU30 seems much more accessible than the power of the EF and the F15 for some reason.

The Su-30SM has a very strong radar, alongside access to 12 BVR AAM’s (1.5x more than the F-15E running 8x AIM-120, 2x more than the F-15E and EFT running 6x AIM-120). This likely allows it to be more aggressive with its missiles as it can relatively reliably intercept incoming missiles, or can just shoot missiles at more targets, either increasing the Su-30SM’s survival chance in BVR combat, or chance to kill in BVR combat. The R-77-1 is also just a better missile than both the AIM-120A and current dev server AIM-120C-5. Its long range performance is similar, but its vastly superior in short range or HOBS use.

Its likely that the reason the Su-30SM performs well, particularly in the KPS metric is simply due to the fact it has more missiles to sling that are better, so on average it gets more kills every time it spawns as it has roughly 1.5/2.0x the chances to kill an enemy with a BVRAAM every spawn.

[HuckebeinDerRabe-psn]

You haven’t even played a Eurofighter. How can you make such a judgement?

[kitsune_qq]

i did and agree with him.