From what I find WS-10 is based on the core of the CFM-56, provide sources if you believe it is based on AL-31F.
2 Likes
Also, you selectively ignore like over half of what I said in the response.
1 Like
It is a static bypass engine with no legitimate improvement in technology that wasn’t also seen in AL-31 series such as FADEC. What we see is a very similar thrust curve and performance, but at a heavier weight. As far as the game is concerned, the two engines are not much different.
CFM-56, like the AL-31, is an 80s engine designed in the 70s and offers no enhancements to the core technology over the Russian counterpart. Perhaps because of licensing or other means they had better means of production for CFM-56-esque parts.
If I did not respond to it, it wasn’t relevant.
-edit-
I should be more clear, the CFM-56 was actually designed in the 60s and sold in the early 70s but I figure China’s version is a newer configuration so I give them the benefit of the doubt that the core they used as basis is from the 70s and 80s.
While it is true that WS-10A is not a technologically advanced engine, it really seems like you are downselling the development timeline, WS-10B and WS-10C are already major improvements in a short timeframe.
FYI, I do not claim responsibility for the J-16/Su-35 debate, but then again why do you seem to care so much about us discussing J-11B details? So what if the weight is lighter or heavier? Gaijin won’t care anyway since they will make up numbers.
I feel old saying this, but PL15 is indeed a ten year old missile now. IDK, anyone else feel like this decade passed quickly?
5 Likes
I said nothing of a timeline or their improvements since. I am talking about the WS-10 as a whole, which is still far behind other nations even after upgrades.
The CFM-56 is based on the F-101, this is the predecessor to the F-14 and F-16’s F110 engine and the F-101 was designed to power the B-1 lancer. Saying that the core technologies are built from this is just proving that the Chinese manufacturing capability was insufficient to copy the AL-31 or improve on it in a short timespan. While the latest models produce more thrust, they also weigh more and do not last as long.
I’m not saying the core is still a CFM-56, of course it is a brand new core, but getting back to my initial point, the engines are heavier than the Russian counterparts and the reasoning is there.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/VswuoUSst4Dd
The GB500 we have is a LT-2 500, we will be receiving the GB1 500 which has the same head as the GB250. The GB1 500 should be IOG/laser
Spoiler
Spoiler
Spoiler
5 Likes
Well, our idea of the newest model is WS10A, we know nothing about the rest, like the ones fitted with J20. I agree that WS 10 is sub par to current contenders, but not like Chinese air force really expected it to be one, supposed to be WS15 RN, so AL41 is definitely not the one to compare to. After all, only a very minor part of Russian airforce has AL41 equipped.
1 Like
The US by contrast was already flying a variable bypass engine and has tested variable cycle engines subsequently before the WS-10 saw installation from the factory in any Sukhoi’s. China’s WS-15 is thought to be similar in capability to the F119, and that is still behind the AL-41 from a design standpoint.
I mean, do you have sources to suggest that the latest WS-10s have a shorter lifespan?
1 Like
Again, you claimed first they have quite an absurd lifespan I think you said 5000 hours? What was the source for that?
What I am saying is only logical, it is not sourced. If they can exceed the AL-31 lifespan it will be on the lower power modes that are discussed frequently.
I was not the one who claimed this. You can go and recheck. Why do you think this?
As I’ve said, I’m not too knowledgeable regarding engines, you can ask some others here for more detailed sources. That is, if you are willing to learn.
In my initial statements I said this was discussed and concluded with sources months ago and now it is still ongoing - there is no source to suggest the J-11’s are lighter. Be happy the in-game aircraft is modeled as such because when data arrives for reports it will very likely be nerfed.
Which will likely be never, there is no concrete source or data, especially regarding J-11B. Gaijin does not accept anything else other than official source. There is nothing to suggest J-11B is the same weight as the other J-11s as well other than speculation.
1 Like
Gaijin doesn’t listen to official NATOPS for F-5 flight model data, prefers tertiary Soviet 60s and 70s media data.
3 Likes
And so, how will it be nerfed?
I’d imagine no one will submit the report anyway.
Unless you are suggesting they will make fake data and submit it as real one.
Once Gaijin makes up their decision, it is difficult to change it.
Why do you have an issue with the J-11B?
This discussion is simply ridiculous. You are voicing your own beliefs, which Gaijin will not take into account in how they model their vehicles.
@pegabug
1 Like
Why do you say the there is no source to suggest the J-11B should not be lighter? Sources have been provided, albeit you and the devs do not like those sources, additionally CCTV claimed the reduced mass. But yes, I can see how that could not be adequate proof. But, I mean, we’ve literally seen a J-11B with composite primer paint (and I think WS-10’s? I’m not as good with engine ID’ing as you are). The original J-11B prototype does not have the composite primer paint, but the latter ones do. Therefore we know there is reduced mass simply based off the information known. Engine mass increased yes, airfoil mass decreased. We can estimate this mass change, and it doesn’t even require an engineering degree or book on aerospace engineering to do so.
Images
J-11B Original Prototype
J-11B with Composites, WS-10’s as well?
J-11D
J-11D has a redesigned and painted nosecone as a dead giveaway that it is not a J-11B.
Besides the point - do you have off hand the mass info for the WS-10A and the AL-31’s the J-11/Su-27SK use?
9 Likes
There is little point reasoning with them, this is most likely ragebait, especially when they threatened a nerf without providing sources. Happened in the Eurofighter forums as well, they’re not exactly the most popular user there.
4 Likes
Hello i startrd grinding the Chinese TT. I was looking over thr planes and see the J-11 and J-11A looked the same is there sny gameplay differences?
J-11A have ARH missiles.