Shenyang J-11, J-16, J-15, History, Performance & Discussion

[MiG_23M]

@I_MiikaL_I

if you choose not to accept common logic then go ahead, the maintainance cost/performance benefit ratio is too small for the PLAAF to care for mass introduction of TVC yet, that’s not some bogus claim like you are trying to portray it as, it’s basic reasoning when looking at the current fleet, WS-10 discourse, future projects, testing of TVC on WS-10, having access to the AL-41s, Chinese research papers, etc.

That is literally what I told you, and you said it was nonsense.

@I_MiikaL_I

@MiG_23M begging for sources when you are infamously poor at providing your own is pretty rich, this all arcs back to what I said yesterday about not falling for the bait, too late for that ig

You asked for numbers, I showed you that they are all over google… easy to find or search for. You had insinuated that you’d done the research at that time and yet clearly that was not the case. So I asked you to back up a claim and instead of doing so, you start contradicting yourself by using my claim against your assertion… against ron? This makes no sense. We need to study your thought process / mental gymnastics here.

@naruto24k

just because they dont use it does not mean its inefficient. it probably just means that they dont wont to spend too much money.

The USA is one of the few countries in the world with a defense budget large enough to use advanced technologies that increase maintenance costs.

[kizvy]

@Yamahagi

The 145 km range of the PL-15E is not its maximum value. Considering that the PL-12AE, which has an identical engine size, achieves a range of 120 km, and given that the PL-15E features smaller wings and a longer, lighter airframe, it can be inferred that this range corresponds to a scenario where the ignition interval of its dual-pulse engine is zero.

Is this the pl-15e with folding fins?

[WreckingAres283]

There seem to be two variants of PL-15E, one with folding wings and one without.

[kizvy]

Yeah ik. I’m just wondering whether the 145km figure corresponds to folding wings or the non folding wings one

[kizvy]

To be fair, that engine is still seems to be a generation ahead of the best Chinese engines, the ws-15. And it was built in the 90s. Does the ws-15 feature a variable bypass?

[Clap6005-live]

Id guess there’s no difference in range, one is just designed with folding fins to fit in internal bays easier
There’s no visual differences apart from the fins.
But AVIC used the non foldable fins one in the post with ~145km range claim

[BACKRAGE44428-live]

j11B has PL8B and PL5EII but can it use R73 ? cause J11 uses them at 13.0 ?

[ron_23]

@BACKRAGE44428-live

j11B has PL8B and PL5EII but can it use R73

no

@BACKRAGE44428-live

cause J11

the J-11 is a Su-27SK, while the J-11B is a complete redesign of it

[MiG_23M]

@ron_23

the J-11 is a Su-27SK, while the J-11B is a complete redesign of it

J-11B is a reverse engineered J-11 w/ modifications, not a redesign in any way. All they did at that point was develop domestic replacements for existing parts and minor improvements in a myriad of places.

[Zannafrancy]

it keeps pretty much the bare minimum only

[MiG_23M]

I don’t think that was true, much like the J-20 the blocks have been made in batches with each iteration showing major improvements over time.

The real world J-11 / J-11B are distinct in that the J-11 was an assembled Russian kit with modifications and the J-11B was entire airframes indigenously produced with the batch improvements refining the design over time.

[TPS_Hydra]

@MiG_23M

replacements for existing parts and minor improvements in a myriad of places

Yeah because the Type 1493 is only a minor improvement over the original N001E, right? The addition of MAWS and other ‘minor’ things, its only a rebranded SU-27SK!!!

Genuine Russian propagandist delusion, can you leave this topic already?

[MiG_23M]

@TPS_Hydra

Yeah because the Type 1493 is only a minor improvement over the original N001E, right? The addition of MAWS and other ‘minor’ things, its only a rebranded SU-27SK!!!

I never said it was a rebranded Su-27SK, that would be the earliest J-11’s which were just built from the Soviet kits. Why do you insist on putting words in my mouth?

[NCC105]

90s AL-41 is another different engine. current new AL-41 is based on AL-31, develop started in late 90s and came out after 2000s. Later version WS-10 is comparable.
I guess you mix AL-41 up with AL-51.
As for WS-15, its design changed a lot because of new requirements so it’s hard to say.

[kizvy]

all j-11b does is add internal ecm ( i think) redesigned wing tips for pl8 capability, rear maws and new radar and composite materials to shave like 700ish kg

[kizvy]

no i was talking about al-41f, it was built in the 90s with variable bypass. al-41f1 and al-41f1s was built in the 2000s and are low bypass only

[racimazzedine]

could the china tree receive the su30 before the j15 and j16, and what br would it be.

[kizvy]

su-30mkk and mk2 with pl-12, rvv-sd/ae, r73 and pl8 and a bunch of ground ordinance at 13.7. worse su27sm due to weight and worse engines.
su30mkk with n001ve and su30mk2 with n001vep, same as su27sm

[racimazzedine]

so just a heavy su30 with no double pylons pl12/r77 and only kh29 ?

[kizvy]

since it wont get cruise missiles… yeah. although it is compatible with kh38 though so they might add it just based off compatibility. no guarantees tho