Setting Lowest BR limit for Bluewater Fleet Navy

Hello there guys. Some heads up, in the last few updates these years, Gaijin adds HMS Abdiel as lowest BR for light cruisers and dropped IJN Yubari to BR 4.3 from 4.7 which helps player grasp some basic of using Bluewater Cruiser as it basically helps improve handling fights against 3.3-4.3 Destroyers.

SO in that way… I was hoping to see Gaijin finally adds BR 3.0 as lowest BR limit for all Navy in game and FORTUNATELY there is one already in game YET it being placed at 3.3 and currently “HIDDEN” from most player nowadays…

That “HIDDEN” Destroyer is HMS Churchill which is currently the weakest Destroyer in term of current gameplay and mechanics which basically put its capability at high-level 2.7 to average-level 3.0 for Coastal vs Bluewater battle…

I’m still searching for some potential list of similar ship on all navies SO please share some with me for further expansion of this list

Summary for Potential New 3.0 Reserve Destroyer

USA 3.0 Bluewater: None so far

Germany 3.0 Bluewater: None so far

USSR 3.0 Bluewater: None so far

Japan 3.0 Bluewater: None so far

Italian 3.0 Bluewater: None so far

French 3.0 Bluewater: None so far

Britain 3.0 Bluewater: HMS Churchill armed with 1 single WW1 102mm gun, 3 single WW1 3inch guns, 4 single 20mm Oerlikon and 2 twin 12.7mm MG ( Browning) &

Any ship with near similar firepower of HMS Churchill, please share it here

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Incidentally, Gaijin also lowers IJN Kako to 4.7 from 5.7 near a year ago, HMS Hawkins & RN Trento from 5.7 also to 5.0 both respectively while raising USS Northampton from 5.0 to 5.3

Also to add, lowest BR limit for early Dreadnought-level Bluewater seems to be placed at 5.7 which dominated by Graf Spee, IJN Ikoma and HMS Glorious which supposed to be 6.0 due to its 15inch guns & good anti-ship firepower BUT got badly nerfed to be placed at 5.7 nowadays

Which means its also highly possible that ONE DAY this 3.0 BR would be lowest limit for Destroyer, BR 4.0 for light cruiser and BR 4.7 for Heavy Cruiser & BR 5.7 for Dreadnought (WW1 Battleship)
+++ I think that lowest BR limit for Battleship (Super Dreadnought) should be 6.0-6.3 as its armed with at least 14inch guns level with good anti-ship and anti-air firepower + possible post-war early missile addition.

Any comment, please share it the nice and understandable way

You’d be likely looking at quite a few WWI & Pre WWI Torpedo Boats, Torpedo Boat Destroyers & some Early Destroyers many with poor surface armament and little to no AA but I would enjoy them all if added and most nations would have something.

When I say torpedo boat I don’t mean things like PT-109 but ships like the Chidori class and from a WWI standard they would be far smaller.

Also TBD’s were the predecessor to the DD if you might have been wondering.

On the topic of the Town class 1940 I’m not sure why you’d want it back the thing was terrible (still better then the Tacoma class) but 3.0 would be good for it, Another ship that’s in a similar situation is the Type 1937 Folttontorpedoboot if added (think a Type 1939 but a smaller and a single aft cannon) it would work at 3.0 imo.

As long as it have firepower equal to HMS Churchill and a bit more or less within 3.0 level, im good with any BUT please share the one on Bluewater Fleet part 1st then we can go onto Coastal Fleet that have similar capability near USS Hoquiam level one day

This info is from Wiki that is not quite reliable but here’s some ship with near similar capability to HMS Churchill that is

1st ship is for Britain HMS Lewis that is transferred from Caldwell-class USS Craven that is armed with single QF 12-pounder 12 cwt naval gun, 3 single 3’50" DP gun, 2 single 40mm Pom-pom and 2 single 20mm Oerlikon while not having torpedo WHICH BASICALLY deadly BR 3.0 AA Destroyer and great AA partner for HMS Churchill

Still looking for another ship that fits BR 3.0 level

Hoping to see a ships that have same level of armament as HMS Montgomery on the USA side even IF its armed with 3 single 3" gun and decent AA firepower + 3/4 in a single torpedo launcher WOULD BE a great BR 3.0 for USA…

Me mentioning the Tacoma class was only to put crap on it since it’s far worse then the Town class 1940 ever will be for at least the gun can fire to the fore and do damage, I take every opportunity to put down on it’s uselessness bar being a flak lighter.

The devs terminology of Coastal & Bluewater are useless terms since many vessels within the coastal TT are in fact ocean going warships designed for combat in the middle of an ocean and logically should be in the Bluewater TT many of which would be Rank I, II & III vessels realistically if the devs naming convention was followed.

But enough of those I still think the Type 1937 could work at Rank I around 3.0 for germany, But we could also see Kaiserliche Marine torpedo boats added like the V-25, V-125 & G-101 TB classes added around 3.0 as well.

Edit, Going into specifications of ships mentioned as asked note information is from Wikipedia & Jane’s WWI, I don’t really have more knowledge outside of those two dodgy sources (RIP my plans for ever suggesting any ships here).

• Type 1937: 1×1 10.5 cm cannon, 1×1 3.7 cm flak cannon, 2×1 2 cm flak cannons, 2×3 21" torpedo tubes, and seamines. 1139t deep load (technically all tonnage stats in game are deep load), maximum speed of 35kts.

• V-25: 3×1 8.8 cm cannons (later in life had 3× 10.5 cm cannons added), 6× 50 cm tubes + 8× torpedoes, a few mines, late in V-25’s life had one cannon landed for a floatplane, speed of 34.5kts, mass was 975t.

• V-125, an improved V-25 with 4×1 10.5 cm cannons & 6× 50 cm tubes, had a similar tonnage & speed.

• G-101 class, 4×1 8.8 cm cannons, 6× 50 cm tubes, mass 1734t, speed 33kts

I also think that the US torpedo boats from the turn of the century could work as well See the Blakely class could work at 3.0 or lower in BR, Similar in your comments you keep replying to yourself with you mentioned the Town class HMS Montgomery G95 and it’s my opinion that yes the US should get a Wickes class destroyer as currently G95 is technically the only wickes class in game LOL RIP America hah hah, Also for America the Smith class destroyer at 3.0, ntm many WWI designs.

Added bonus the Sampson class with one in it’s WWII refit maybe as a premium.

• Blakely class, turn of the century vessels so it’s small, 3×1 1 pounders, 3×1 18" tubes, mass 196t, speed of 26kts, IIRC some had aircraft tested.

• Wickes class 4×1 4", 1×1 3", 4×3 21" tubes, mass 1247t, speed 35kts

• Smith class, 5×1 3" cannon, 3×1 18" tubes, mass 916t, speed 28kts

• Sampson class, 4×1 4", 2×1 1 pounders, 4×3 18" tubes, mass 1225t, speed 29.5kts

Late life refit for USS Allen, 1 pounders were landed for a 3" cannon & during the second world war saw two sets of tubes landed for six 20 mm Oerlikons and more depth charge projectors.

Russia could also get further Norvik class ships since we’ve a Derzky class & Fidonisy class already so a Orfey class & Izyaslav class, Premium option Orfey class destroyer Engels fitted with a 305 mm recoilless rifle.

• Orfey class 4×1 4", 1× 2pdr, 2× MG’s, 3×3 18" tubes, mass 1440t speed 32kts

Engels, aft 4" removed and replaced with a 12" recoilless rifle.

• Izyaslav class, 5×1 4", 3×3 18" tubes, mines, mass 1350t, speed 33kts

I’m not versed in their TB’s or TBD’s but they could also get a torpedo cruiser since I think they had one (Don’t fear not a Kuma class like conversion).

Now Britain heh they have got some choices that could work and IMO the HMS Swift would work and could be a 3.3 tbh but the fastest destroyer of WWI and it had a 6" cannon (this could be the premium option), There’s to many options but I’ll list some that could work.

The Faulkner class could be a mean 3.3 with six 4" cannons in an as built version and the L class as an option as well ntm a Havock class TBD or Viper class TBD (ordered after the demonstration of the first stream turbine ship Turbina).

Event option S class destroyer HMS Stronghold or HMS Thanet with provisions for one RAE Larynx (think a very early cruise missile type but more of a catapult launched pilotless monoplane with a 300kg charge).

• HMS Swift a single ship since it was a test bed, as built 4×1 4" (1917: 1×1 6", 2×1 4"), 1×1 2pdr, 2×1 18" tubes, mass 1825t, speed 36kts on trial, 35kts in wartime.

• Faulkner class, 6×1 4" cannons non centreline mounts, 2× on the bow, 2× just behind the bridge (kinda think the Omaha class fore weaponry layout) then 2× more on the stern, 2×2 21" tubes, post war refits 2×1 4.7" cannons, 2×1 4" , 2×1 2pdrs, 2×2 21" tubes, Mass 1700t, speed 32kts.

• Havock class, 1×1 12pdr, 3×1 6pdr, 3×1 tubes, mass 279t, 26.7kts.

• Viper class, 1×1 12pdr, 3×1 6pdr, 2×1 tubes, mass 350t, 36.5kt

• L class, 3×1 4", 2×1 2pdr, 2×2 21" tubes, mass 1026t, 29kts

• S class Generally as built 3×1 4", 1×1 2pdr, 1× MG, 2×2 21" tubes, 2×1 18" tubes and depth charges, mass 1220t speed 32.5kts at deep load 36kts when not (I kinda wish on some speed speed increased as you got lighter).

Post WWI trails fore 4" removed on Stronghold & Thanet and replaced with one cordite catapult for an RAE Larynx.

WWII service Both ships had the catapult removed and 4" guns added back, prior to WWII they were converted to minelayers having some torpedoes & the aft gun removed, iirc they also had more LAA added.

I would continue with Japan, Italy & France But I’ll come back to that as for I must be off unfortunately (rather late here).

I will do the next three nations soon for suggestive ideas but I must be off again.


Keep it up at your own convenience timing as long as it fits within such limits

Also to add, I was hoping that anyone know the ship’s name would at least try to mention some firepower specifications like i did before to help access the ship’s combat capabilities in WT current game mechanics, at least in my view before i decide to discuss it further with one of the tech moderators one day

Editing part: I hope to see any WW1 era ship that gained modernization anywhere between 1925-WW2 era as the ship i mentioned before DID participate before WW2 like 1935 at earliest to be quite relatable for WT game…

Based on this spec that you mentioned here… It seems that Type 1937 and G-101 class fit the 3.0 level for anti-ship/anti-air/mixed bag ship at least in my opinion…

V-25 on both initial 88mm gun & later 105mm gun variant fits more on BR 3.0 while V125 could be quite decent BR 3.3 anti-ship Destroyer like 1924 Raubtier-class Jaguar DD level that was supposed to be 3.3 instead of 3.7 UNLIKE T22 & its sister T31

Noted… IF there are sources that says USS Craven (Caldwell-class) have armed its 37mm 1-pounder (not 1.1inch gun based on Wiki) it could be a decent BR 3.3 AA which is similar to USS Barker

While USS Allen that trades its 2 triple torp for 6 Oerlikon could fit BR 3.3 DD that gives better AA firepower than HMS Churchill current 3.3 level ((Which should be BR 3.0 level))
— I believe its 3.3 level due to its main guns still the same layout as Clemson-class 4 single 4" gun and its 3" gun PLUS its torpedo are upgraded from 18" to 21" instead…

Sampson-class (Caldwell>Wickes>Clemson) can be placed at specialized BR 3.0 anti-ship DD despite its 4 single gun DUE to its smaller torpedo usage of 18" instead of usual 21" used on Clemson

Wickes basically similar to its successor, Clemson but with some minor difference WHILE Smith-class are build near 6 years Before WW1 that it cannot be ADDED in game…

It would be good if there are Wickes-class DD that have participated in WW2 as escort Destroyer of something similar that trade off some of its main firepower for more AA defense

Forgot to mention some EXTRA INFO…

Anyone welcome to suggest some ship name with some specification for BR 4.0 Light cruiser level which is currently dominated by HMS Abdiel & BR 4.7 Heavy cruiser level ruled by IJN Kako (Furutaka’s predecessor)
---- BUT for BR 5.7 Dreadnought level in term of firepower, IJN Ikoma 12" and Graf Spee 11" is a good reference for any ship with smaller caliber yet numerous guns on any navies that actually DO have it

JUST remember to mention the one that got modernization on year 1930 at earliest and DID participate around 1930 up to 1945 WW2 with overall firepower specification at least