The BRs would need way more decompression for the UK Phantoms to legitimately deserve a BR that is lower than the F-4J. I do agree that 12.0 feels like it’s too high for the former 11.3 Phantoms, but that’s mostly because there are former 12.7s (MiG-29G, Mirage 4000 and JAS39A) that are 13.0 now instead of 13.3.
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remember the C.7 is 12.0 and it sees 13.0 planes with AIM 120
its the worse performing delta at the br
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However, I have no idea how Gaijin think that J-7E is worse than MiG-21bis.
As one of J-7 player, 11.0BR J-7E is just criminal and it wasn’t even needed.
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While I am glad to see that at least SOME Battle Rating decompression did indeed actually happen and that the Mirage F1C-200 and Mirage F1CT will not have to fight against BR 13.0 aircraft, I am disappointed by one thing in Simulator Battles.
Basically F-4S, F-4J, and F-4J(UK) are nearly completely runined in Air Simulator Battles. In two out of the four BR rotations they are fighting against BR 12.7 aircraft, and against BR 13.0 in one of the four BR rotations.
Examples of BR 12.7 aircraft that these now 12.0 Phantoms will fight include Yak-141, MiG-29, and F-16A.
Examples of BR 13.0 aircraft that these now 12.0 Phantoms will fight include F-16s, F-15As, JAS39A Gripen, J8F, AV-8B Plus, Mirage 4000, and MiG-29G.
Until yesterday, these now 12.0 Phantoms most frequently used to face Su-17M/22M, Su-25T/39, MiG-23ML/MLA/MLD, F-4F, F-4EJ Kai, J-7E, F-5E FCU, Tornado F3/ADV, JH-7A, and AMX (A-1).
Against the vast majority of these aircraft, even the F-4S Phantom (which has leading edge slats) will struggle with their flight performance in a dogfight. The Phantom is simply a heavy aircraft that loses all of its energy in prolonged turnfights, and becomes a sitting duck.
On top of the flight performance disadvantages, these naval F-4 Phantoms do not even get access to all aspect AIM-9 missiles!
This means that the ONLY trick up the sleeve of a F-4J/S/J(UK) was to play exclusively in the BVR, and the American F-4J/S are specially good at it with their AIM-7Fs. But even then, basically all of these mentioned “former frequent opponents” of these F-4 Phantoms could easily go defensive and evade even the medium range AIM-7F from the F-4S, and force the Phantom to choose between either committing to a dogfight (which I just explained why this is a really bad idea) or to attempt to fly away.
However, these 12.0 F-4 Phanotoms will be at a massive disadvantage even in the BVR scenario when fighting against aircraft such as F-16s, F-15As, JAS-39A Gripens, MiG-29s, AV-8B Plus, J-8F, and Yak-141.
All of these aircraft have massively superior radars, RWR, countermeasures, IRCCM missiles, and flight performance.
Some even have the vastly superior R-27ER, and while the JAS-39A Gripen has only Skyflash missiles it makes up for it with insane flight performance and amount of countermeasures.
This is not even to mention the fact that these 12.0 F-4 Phantoms stand nearly no chance in a BVR fight against “Fox-3” missiles.
This will mean that these BR 12.0 F-4J/S Phantoms will be unplayble in 3 out of the 4 BR rotations of the Air Simulation Battle BR Rotations, since they will be hopelessly outmatched. Their dogfight weaknesses will be even weaker, and their BR 12.7 and BR 13.0 opponents will be able to either completely nullify or even massively overmatch the Phantom’s once BVR advantage.
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Hopefully F-4C change to 10.3 BR for Air AB, Air RB and Air SB
I need add AIM-7E on F-4C for next major update
@NestleKitkat
Mig-21s had their flight models corrected last major update.
They turn worse than all Phantoms now.
F-4C pulls 13.6 degrees per second sustained with a missile load and gunpod, compared to Mig-21MF’s 13.1 and SMT’s 12.2.
2km at 6000 meters, from behind, on a target going <mach 1. It’s ~1.5km at sea level.
They can’t fire from front aspect, and an F-4C giving their rear to a Mig is hilariously hard to do unintentionally.
Radar slaving means nothing cause R-60s won’t launch head-on no matter what, and an AIM-7D is heading toward the Mig in that situation.
An F-4C dying to a current Mig is hilariously hard to when playing the F-4C anywhere close to correctly, especially at high alt if the Mig made the mistake of doing that.
Enderestimating Mig-21s would be comparing them to F-3D.
As I said, F-4C should be 10.3 instead of 10.7.
Same BR as it was last time relative to what it faces.
Weird, cause JA-37C has better missiles and a better radar.
Same with the D in relation to Mig-23s.
EJ Kai is the best Phantom, and the only difference between it and an F-15J is thrust and mass.
brother it doesnt matter, they have an HMD, Better airframe and near UNLIMITED countermeasures
this br decompression i one of the worse things ive seen
the Netz at 13.0 with 60 cm, no fox 1 and phyton 3 and the adf FM meaning you are heavier than a F16a
dont get me wrong the pythons are good but they dont compete against 9M or r73
matter of fact it should be at 12.7 like the f16a
the Kfir c2/c7 even at lower br it takes a bit of skill to play it since any f16 or f5 can just walk on you and it for sure doesnt compete against a mig 29a
talking about mig 29a why is it lower br than the f16 adf when you have the best fox 1 in game
upping the br of all the F4 was a crime and the person that suggested that for sure doesnt play the game to know that most F4 are garbage in air rb
also the fact that all the F4 at 12.0 will now see the mig 29G and mirage 4000 is crazy considering that
a great majority of F4 dont even get all aspect fox 2
the f5s up br was also a crime except for the FCU
the su 17m/22 m and so on going up in br is stupid
Mig 29 G should be 13.3 and the SMT 13.7 just like all the other fox 3 planes
the mirage F1(all) has no place at 12.0 because it cant compete unless they buff the FM
the mirage 2000D is understandable but stupid at the same time since you are heavier because 2 seater and gun pod and you only have 2 missile
the Mirage 4k should be 13.3 but if they do that they need to add the extra flares and chaff that it is supposed to get
JA 37D cant compete in uptiers but u get more flares and chaff
gripen A should be 13.3 makes no sense to see it get a down tier and face F4s
Kurnass 2000 should be 11.7 with all the other F4s with similar air to air capabilities exemple f4S and EJ kai
also why 13.7 shouldve been 14.0
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Can someone please explain to my who thought it is a good idea to put the F-16As at the same br as the f15As,M4k and JAS39A, Why? Also i thought this decompression would finally make the phantom variants separate brs but the F-4J(UK) is still the same br as the F-4S. And the problem still exists of the former 11.3 facing arh slingers
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11.3 feels a lot better now too.
No more MiG-29s, F-14s and alikes while playing F-4E is an absolute pleasure!
EDIT: Nevermind, STILL can face F-14s. I was just being lucky enough not to get uptiered for a moment there. Ugh…
It realliy made F-5C obsolete. F-5C cannot compete with the amount of MiG-23’s it faces, even if it’s in the same team still cannot compete with them due to their speed and armament. MiG-23 and F-4 variants get to battlefield faster collect everything, refuse to elaborate and leaves basically.
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and all these cosmetic changes have zero impact in terms of playability. You completely grind out any player skill by throwing 32 people into one battle, each with 4 to 8 rockets. Some planes have a negligible amount of flares, radar missiles eat everything close to the ground, your crappy EOMM for anyone who goes even a little bit beyond this shitty average massively throws total intellectual trash into the teams to lower the effectiveness and finally you have a takeoff simulator with a 2-minute flight and a 30-minute flight. second mill as on AB. It is important that the queues are packed because 90% of the cattle at ARB are only engaged in the start simulator. The number of lvl 15-30 with a high-tier premium plane with 1 frag in 4 battles is so huge that you could just as easily play with bots and there would be no difference
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It’s always nice when they do this!
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am i the only one finding 320 big chaff at each pod of the aj37 a bit broken? also the pods on the ajs37 and the aj37 are not configuriable in custom loadout
Phantoms aren’t bad at all and all of them getting upped in BR was part of the decompression. The J/S/Spey variants going to 12.0 is a bit overkill, but that’s only because Gaijin arbitrarily decided for the top BR to be 13.7 instead of something more sensible like 14.0 or even higher.
It’s almost like the majority of planes at 10.0 and above got their BRs upped. 11.0 is fine for the F-5A and C, the originally planned 11.3 BR for the F-5E would have been fine and the FCU would have gone to 11.7 accordingly.
Same thing as with the F-5s, they were above 10.3, so they got their BRs increased.
They can compete even with their current FM, they got the 12.0 BR to be in line with the former 11.3 Phantoms.
The Kurnass 2000 and F-4EJ Kai have the same BR right now. They are both above the F-4S.
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Having a max BR of 13.7 doesn’t allow for enough wiggle room to give the F-4J(UK) a BR that is lower than that of the F-4S.
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Fix the type 93 its rear wheels are clipping into the ground and thus its suspension bounces when driving and makes its mobility worse
Other players mentioned before some odd BRs.
What’s about the Sea Harrier FR.1 and (e) Version…
One is 10.7 the other s 2 steps higher at 11.3
Planes are nearly identical. The higher one has 2 missiles more. That’s it.
Also pls review some planes at 9.3/ 9.7. Now a lot of enemy missile slingers ere uptiered and the best 9.3 planes will have an far to easy time …*cough … Mig19
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I totally agree with you, these Tornado need to go down (for some below the BR11) because we all know that in dogfight they are really not worth much. But Gaijin and many players have nothing to do with these planes.