Why? you have a speed advantage and a turning advantage. Heck a mkv spit usually has both.
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American planes have a speed advantage and similar if not better firepower, Japanese planes are all also over tiered, Germans are across the board similar to Americans just slightly slower and with a better climb, swedes have meatball nuke launchers, china non esiste the only ones I’d say are similar at that br is MAYBE the soviets. You realize you’re putting a 1942 or 1943 plane at best in the realm of a super prop right? I don’t know what kinda pasta magic you think Italians had but in no way should the re.2005 be facing mk22 spits, f2g, f8f, etc not from a historical standpoint and definitely not from a performance one. If the re.2005 was as good as you all think I’m willing to bet Germany wouldn’t have picked the g.55. the re.2005 is basically performance wise between a spit mkv and mk9. It’s fm is comparable to 4.7 planes of other nations. But it’s ok Italian players make do with inflated brs as always.
2 Likes
Irrelevant - the only consideration for BR’s is Gaijin’s secret recipe of an unknown number of wins and losses.
With the exception of the Spitfires. Almost all British vehicles have inflated BRs. Trust me when I say, Gaijin actively hates Britain, but at worse, they just ignore Italy.
The point is, judge the Re.2005 vs aircraft at 5.7-6.3 as a basis for lowering its BR. making a irrelevant statement like, “the Mk9 Spitfire at 4.3 is better therefore this aircraft must be 4.3” is of no benefit.
Should the Re.2005 be 6.0? I don’t know, maybe not.
Should the F Mk9 be a little higher? maybe
But its pretty clear the differences between the F Mk9 at 4.3 and the LFMk9 at 5.7 and the reasons why one is higher than the other. But if you solely look at the stat cards, then why stop at the FMk9.
Spitfire Mk1a has almost universally better stats the Re.2005 at 3.0. prehaps you would advocate the Re.2005 to be lowered to 3.0?
Oh and piece of advice. You called out a 6.7 Spitfire, I’d advise not looking at the Plagis LF MkIX spitfire at 5.7.
American planes have a speed advantage and similar if not better firepower, Japanese planes are all also over tiered, Germans are across the board similar to Americans just slightly slower and with a better climb, swedes have meatball nuke launchers, china non esiste the only ones I’d say are similar at that br is MAYBE the soviets. You realize you’re putting a 1942 or 1943 plane at best in the realm of a super prop right? I don’t know what kinda pasta magic you think Italians had but in no way should the re.2005 be facing mk22 spits, f2g, f8f, etc not from a historical standpoint and definitely not from a performance one. If the re.2005 was as good as you all think I’m willing to bet Germany wouldn’t have picked the g.55. the re.2005 is basically performance wise between a spit mkv and mk9. It’s fm is comparable to 4.7 planes of other nations. But it’s ok Italian players make do with inflated brs as always.
I fully agree.
You simply made many valid points that obviously Italy haters will not appreciate your comment.
The funny part is, people play against it so badly, the bad performance even helps them overshoot. I mean, I don’t have to throttle drop.
I played literally 1 round just to check it out after a long break from underperforming Italian planes :P
I wasn’t doing anything well, I had pretty bad timing on some maneuvers, yet I was able to score 6 kills and nobody was able to touch me, damn at one point it was basically 3 v 1, but F2G/P-51H swarm was just SO DAMN BAD.
https://warthunder.com/en/tournament/replay/103883967422259879
Re.2005 is horrible, but people treat it with so much disrespect it actually works. I mean, with 2 working braincells among enemy team, I would be dead. Luckily there were none.
1 Like
Well, good turning planes are usually the most effectve against unexperienced players.
They allow you to dodge and put your guns on target when they think it’s safe.
But it’s very odd how this plane seems to perform so well at 6.0 when other planes at 4.7/5.0 have practically the same or better performance.
I can think of a few possible reasons for this:
-
Italy is a minor nation, a particularly small one when it comes to the game. Generally speaking, players that are playing minor nations tend to be more experienced, due to reasons like already having played the major nations, AKA the big three that are US, Germany and USSR;
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It being in the Italian tech tree perhaps means it is likely to face countries like Russia and US more often, while staying on the same side as Germany, effectively facing 2 of the big three nations while being paired with one of them. Much like players playing minor nations being more generally more experienced, the exact opposite is true for the big three major nations which attract most if not all new players when they start playing the game.
Of course, this is all assuming that the match maker for ARB is roughly the same as I remember it, which can be entirely not the case given how I haven’t played that game mode for unironic years.
There are a few paths (for planes that are initially damn good, because there is also the path of mediocre plane, but that path mostly involves no adjustments made for years and barely anyone playing the plane and Gaijin not really carying about it):
- Premium plane is added.
- it’s ridiculolously OP so a lot of people buy it.
- They play it horribly.
- BR goes even lower.
- Even more clueless people buy it.
- Another OP plane gets added.
- The plane gets less popular because most people willing to buy it already did.
- BR goes up by 0.3, plane is still OP years after introduction.
Examples: Su-11, P-59A, BI, Wyvern (except it went down in BR and is now harassing 4.0), XP-55, XP-50/
Path 2:
- Italian plane gets added.
- It’s undertiered and everyone notices even during tests.
- Good players get to it first and inflate its stats.
- At the same time Gaijin heavily nerfs the plane.
- But since stats were achieved while the plane wasn’t nerfed, the BR gets increased to the moon.
- Plane is kinda meh, but still can be effective in right hands and it’s kinda pretty, so good players still play it and do OK in it, while everyone else avoids it.
- Plane stays where it is or even goes further UP in BR.
Examples: basically any Italian fighter in game, some just were never truely OP, but all went up in BR till they became barely playable. But lets mention C.205 S3, Re.2005, G.56, G.55 S1, C.202 with cannons.
Path 3:
- Popular techtree plane is added.
- It’s OP.
- It gets used by mostly clueless players due to fairly low BR/techtree placement/the fact that it had bad armanent that one day became the hammer of gods etc.
- Its BR stays the same for years even though good players keep mentioning it’s OP as hell, because clueless players use it wrong, f.e. for head ons despite bad armanent.
- Nothing is done about it, sometimes even the plane gets buffed in the process, but no adjustments to BR are made, because Gaijin devs avoid their own game and have no idea how f.e. turning 12,7mm MG into something more akin to 20mm will affect performance and balance.
- Sometimes BR is eventually increased a bit, plane is still OP.
Best example:
Ki-44-II - still absolute killer at 3.7, at one point when it sat at , I think it was 3.0 (LOL) it got its 12,7mm MGs super buffed and BR move only happened after months of stomping everything. Still stomps everything.
P-39N/Pay2winshkin’s P-39N - absolute menace, outperforming everything by a huge margin. But armanent is pretty mediocre, so it stays at BR where nothing can touch it.
J2M2 - absolute beast at 4.3, recently it got its cannons turned into 1-shot wonders, no BR adjuistment.
7 Likes
I own that one as well as the fr and believe me It’s overpowered as hell. To the people complaining about my comparison to the mk22 do you think it magically won’t see the 22 at 6.7? If you pineapple on pizza stulti could read you would see I compared it to being between the mkv and mk 9 in performance. lets fight me in a 22 and you in a mk v or a mk 9 then you tell me if the two should face each other.
Su-11 was introduced at 7.0 tho, not a higher BR. And it’s currently balanced among its peers, in-part because P51H5NA still memes on it, and all 7.7s are faster & better than the Su-11 except maybe Ouragan or whatever it’s called, but I haven’t tested.
Wyvern went down after its engine became glass, and has been 4.0 for like 3 years.
IDK if XP-50 is OP, but it could probably be fine at 4.3 alongside other on-par 4.3s I’m aware of.
Those are the only objections I have with your post at this time.
And possibly easy access to a 1 and done ground slapper (which can do so much more). I believe I bought it at 4.7 and was terrible at it (only tried ARB on last couple of years so there is a lot to learn).
Worst scenario: Wyvern to 5.0 and joins Ju288 spam sessions, plus the F2G-1… but not the Do 335 B2 as I love that (until they nerf 30mms).
Dude, Su-11 was most of my P51H5NA kills when it was 7.0, then I stopped playing the P51 cause I stopped getting jet matches & it got boring.
P51 also out-accelerates Su-11 by a wide margin, that superprop acceleration. But yeah, every 7.7 is superior to Su-11. And no one was thinking of making it 6.7 other than you.
Many Gaijin employees play the game.
I’ve been in two random encounters with Smin for example.
First time I was in my Sea Vixen and he on the enemy team was my victim.
Second time I was in a nearly stock Tornado F3 and we clutched the match.
I’ve also seen other members of the MOD squadron a few times.
P51 also out-accelerates Su-11 by a wide margin,
Not how props/jets work
2 Likes
The whole point that @Loofah made was that the players that were using the Su-11 were complete garbage. You are just showing that he is correct.
Just putting the Su-11 in a 15º climb gives it a speed of over 500 km/h and a climb rate of roughly 32 m/s when at low altitude, with 20 minutes of fuel. The P-51H simply cannot reach this climb rate in a sustained manner.
Climb rate and acceleration are directly connected (i.e. a higher climb rate at a specific speed indicates superior acceleration), so no, it is blatantly untrue that the P-51H “out-accelerates Su-11 by a wide margin”. At low speeds it is expected that the P-51H out-accelerates the Su-11 but the Su-11 very quickly gains the upper hand.
Edit: After some very quick testing, the P-51H (min fuel) and Su-11 (20 minutes of fuel) both have a roughly 30 to 31 m/s sustained climb rate when at 350 km/h at low altitudes (below 1 km). The P-51H will accelerate better below this speed and the Su-11 will accelerate better above this speed.
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There’s a reason they were 0.7 BRs apart and not the same BR.
But yeah, they’re balanced at 7.3. They’re among the middle of the 7.3 pack.
Not as good as the rocket 262, but still rather good.
That’s an old myth lol, plenty of aircraft in the japan tree can turnfight spitfires and win.
Yeah if they aren’t going too fast, you can 100% get inside them especially if you use the flaps at the right time in a 109 E.