Not sure if it was ever used, my research into it was that it was experimental.
Considering we have experimental rounds in game that were never used i really dont see the probelm with this other than the lack of information on it. I think all we know is that it used a rhienmetal 30mm round which people assume to be from the puma.
1 Like
I’ve always had a deep affection for the Sea Harrier—probably my favorite British aircraft after the Spitfire and the Lancaster. One reason is the emotional connection to the Sea Harrier FRS.1 during the Falklands War (I even have a Steam ID named SeaHarrierFRS1). Another reason is that the Sea Harrier FA2 was the last fighter aircraft to be entirely built by the British domestic aviation industry.
Although the Typhoon was a multinational collaboration, its development was primarily led by the British aerospace industry. If only it hadn’t been vetoed by the Germans, the Typhoon might have been named the Spitfire III—which would have been great. That said, the name “Typhoon” also evokes the legacy of the Hawker Typhoon, which is pretty cool in itself.
4 Likes
Sketchy isn’t it?
Just because RAF pilots won DACT against F-14 in Tornado ADV doesn’t mean that it is the superior aircraft.
How efficient and controllable stunts with the nozzel really were is perhaps not as easy to ascertain as one might think.
Harrier triumphed because of superior training, weaponry, radar and better ground and ship based as well as airborne radar.
They didn’t beat them lol, they just evaded them and completed their mission. By the way the ADV is not the British Tornado, that would be the F.3
The Harriers have triumphed over F-14,15, and 16 time and time again even back when they had a mediocre radar and just heater missiles.
VIFF was trick to have in one’s pocket and could be very useful as stated by many Harrier pilots, it had a number of uses and would only bite you if you flew it outside its parameters.
I don’t really understand your logic, the Harriers performance IRL far exceeds what is modeled in game and there are countless sources to claim this.
Even its conventional wing Bourne flight performance is much lower than it should be.
2 Likes
The same applies to other aircraft.
ADV just means air defence. The F3 in British service is a ADV.
From what I heard in an interview the Tornado combined with smart tactics and a Tornado and Hawk (It were Hawks weren’t it?) mix managed to come out on top.
Romantisizing the efficiency of any Harrier because it got to serve in advantageous circumstances is no issue for me personally but assuming the features mentured above are anywhere near as efficient as some believe that would almost certainly lead to an increase in Br.
I am not saying Harrier is a terrible aircraft, far from it in fact but training exercises are always difficult to judge.
There’s no question as to the Harrier taking heavy loses if the argies used different tactics, however this does not mean the harrier is worse than their jets in any way, it’s just not 5-10X better. The attrition was not on their side.
I don’t see a BR. Increase being justified. There are many jets with better performance at the same br. All that would change is the Sea Harrier as a fighter would be more than just a missile truck.
But to which extend? It would still look like SU-27 vs Rafale in BFM wouldn’t it?
The Mirages used by Argentina were simply lacking in upgrades and did not have the sophisticated support structure in place as the Harrier did.
Apprently some Harrier pilots even got to train against Belgian Mirages prior to deployment.
Just like Lightning in the 80s Mirage III/5 variants without the necessary upgrades were always going to be distinctly disadvantaged especially without sophistaced support structures in place, be it maintenance, bases for operations or ground control radars and AWACS. They did not even have a radar on the aircraft.
Harrier was named Black Death because it had the radar, the missiles and support structure it needed to fight the Mirages present in a way they usually could do very little about if they even had the necessary loitering time.
If eventual nozzle shenanigans would be implemented in the style of a cobra button they might even be useful.
What about safety from IRCCM equipped missiles?
I am all for historical accuracy or authenticity at least but with these changes it depends all on proper implementation.
I think the differences would either be negligible or so substantial that the aircraft might be raised in Br.
Either would be fine of course but perhaps not quite what most people are hoping for.
The Mirages they used where upgraded, they even had Israeli Daggers aka the Mirage 5 with advanced missiles and radar.
What advanced radar systems do you even speak of that the Harrier had at this time?
The FRS.1 was fitted with a modified Lynx helicopter radar, a simple I band search radar, and the only warning radar they had was from the ships they had no AWACS.
Sometimes CAP patrols from Hermes where flown with visual searches meaning they flew around looking for targets with there eyes.
The Harrier pilots that flew DACT training against said mirages didn’t get to see much active combat.
So in your view a sophisticated support system if a few ship based radar and a tiny I band search radar.
1 Like
Shouldn’t be a cobra button, the Harrier could pull a lot of AOA even without the nozzles as the CG is much closer to unstable than is modeled in game, the nozzles should allow for 40 degrees before the plane even encounters buffet, meaning tighter, faster, and sharper turns than even the F-18 when going slow.
The Harrier 2 even more so.
2 Likes
Stability is not properly modelled for any aircraft in game that seems to be a limitation in the engine.
Missiles and ground controll matter. Training and all the stuff I mentioned.
Dagger only came after the war and has no radar just like Mirage 5 and Nescher.
Mirage IIIC has a radar of course but then again there is the age and other factors I mentioned.
The Dagger was used by Argentina in the war.
Go do some reading and research on the matter then come back.
Still don’t understand your claims about the buff.
The Harriers need buffs and would benefit greatly from them, gaijin ignoring these issues is why I made this post.
2 Likes
Dear me I confused the type.
The Finger is the one that was introduced after the war.
Regarding the improvements for the Harrier I would simply not expect immense improvements without Br changes.
They were Mirage 3s flown by pilots who were told to avoid RN aircraft. By that logic every other A2A kill cannot be counted because someone had an advantage?
Yes Britain got lucky and they were lucky because Argentina didn’t have tankers otherwise fuel limitations would not have been an issue. Britain also had the opportunity to train and practise with Belgian Mirages and using the new Aim9L that just makes sense though?
As for raising it’s br it already faces Gen 4 airframes. It vexes me that any kind of advantage, game mechanic that could stop Britain from sucking is always met with “Increase it’s BR”
3 Likes
They were not told this much later in the war and it was the A-4 and other strike aircraft pilots.
The Mirages flew out with the goal of fighting Harriers. Only after the first few fights did the argies go maybe that’s not a good idea.
The first Harrier V mirage fights where very much ATA fights.
3 Likes
I will admit I dont know a huge amount about the conflict, it was my understanding that the Mirage 3 were held in reserve to protect the mainland and didnt have the necessary fuel capacity to reliably operate over the island and challenge RN aircraft.
The A-4 pilots were crazy flying low and using dumb bombs to hit RN ships. But this along with the Daggers put them in the SHARs ideal engagement envelope.
I wish gajan would listen and fix whats already in game before they introduce new stuff.
The change you propose would sell alot more harrier premiums as well.
Tornado needs a massive buff too- also has premiuns for sale…
1 Like
It is the same for other aircraft unfortunately.
Without Br decompression there is little to be done about it unfortunately.
No the mirages where sent out at high altitude to try and pull the harriers up to fight. The Harriers knew they would be at a disadvantage up there so they stayed low and both sides played cat and mouse.
Eventually the mirages dove down and the 2 types merged head on and the Harriers shot them down.
1 Like
This is just a silly take.
Let’s compare the J-7E and the Frs.1
J-7 is 11.3 and the Frs.1 is 11.0
The J-7 has large caliber CM is supersonic has insane flight performance and 4 very good missiles.
The Frs.1 terrible flight performance due to gaijin limited CM, and 4 ok missiles.
The Frs.1 is useless in air RB unless your target doesn’t see you. So how would making the Frs.1 able to turn and shoot accurately make it worthy of a higher Br.
3 Likes