No the mirages where sent out at high altitude to try and pull the harriers up to fight. The Harriers knew they would be at a disadvantage up there so they stayed low and both sides played cat and mouse.
Eventually the mirages dove down and the 2 types merged head on and the Harriers shot them down.
This is just a silly take.
Let’s compare the J-7E and the Frs.1
J-7 is 11.3 and the Frs.1 is 11.0
The J-7 has large caliber CM is supersonic has insane flight performance and 4 very good missiles.
The Frs.1 terrible flight performance due to gaijin limited CM, and 4 ok missiles.
The Frs.1 is useless in air RB unless your target doesn’t see you. So how would making the Frs.1 able to turn and shoot accurately make it worthy of a higher Br.
You just picked one of the better aircraft.
What kind of argument is that supposed to be?
MiG-23 M is the same Br as the Frs.1
F-5E with radar gunsight good missiles and good flight performance, it’s also 11.0
There are tons of good planes that are far better than the Frs.1 at this same Br.
You’re reasons for it to go up in Br are a bit weird as there are already planes with better performance in every way at this br.
Where with aircraft like the F-15 I would concur and that they engaged under extremely favourable conditions, with every advantage possible. So no wonder they came out with an exceptional track record. The SHars did not. If anything, bar the experience of the pilots and the Superior nature of the Aim-9L over the Magic 1s. The SHar held every disadvantage from airframe performance (subsonic), to logistic, to intellegence, even to a certain degree experience handling the local weather.
On the of the main reasons there were so few actual engagements in the end, is because argentine ground radars kept aborting raids if there was a SHar CAP in the way. Nearly 400 sorties were canceled in this manner.
This is why I think the SHars performance in the Falklands was so exceptional
Perhaps not, but I think the 2x F-15As (that were actively deployed to germany at the time, during the height of the cold war) that were in no way handicapped vs 2x FRS1s whilst they were still missing a lot of kit like their radars and HUDs and the FRS1s winning at a ratio of 3:1 is pretty damn impressive imo.
All of them, probably would. For now, I think a lot of them are actually over BRed and stuck at their respective BRs for various reasons. A lot of the initial buffs being asked for would simply help bring them up to a necessary performance standard for their current BRs with the exception of a few (like the 9.7 harriers with 240 CMs could probably do with moving up to 10.0)
eventually, we could see them moving up, but if thye were actually at full strength, if they were actually equipped for that battle. They’d be fine. At the moment, its just annoying to play aircraft like the SHar, especially in SB with no gunsight for example.
Initial buffs like EEGS wont increase the BR. FRS1 is the same BR as the F-5E with EEGS and is a supersonic dogfighter. (and so the 10.7 one getting it too isnt that big of a deal either) and fixing some of the heat sig issues using F-117 code just helps bring them in line with other subsonic aircraft already at the BR.
FRS1 (SQV) could also get a better RWR, but again, shouldnt be an issue, the AV-8S (both of them) just got an equal or superior RWR to the one the SQV could get. So again, shouldnt have any barring at this time
Other fixes like getting rid of the sooty exhaust and finishing the cockpit HUD should have 0 barring on BR
Full heat signature modeling, buffed FM, etc etc. those would start moving things about far more. But they should be fine. in the FRS1 (SQV) case, worse case scenario, it can also get Aim-9Ms if its BR starts to increase too much
No clearly the adding of EEGS and fixing of the gunsights justifies an increase to 12.0.
Sarcasm, obviously. However I do have some hilarious footage from the other day where I chase a tornado around for a good while unable to hit him with guns until he pulls to hard rips his wings and plummets to the ocean and I get no points at all lol.
Harrier is never going to outfly some of the aircraft with similar weaponry.
In a low altitude setting it will if modeled correctly that’s what I’m trying to show.
At low altitude assuming it does make it’s shots connect.
That would be interesting to see but knowing Gaijin that might place you at an untenable Br.
I am not saying it should but it is what it is.
So making it somewhat competitive at its already over Brd state will justify it going up.
By your logic the F-5e should be 13.0.
And the performance of the harrier compared to say the F-5 or MiG-21 would be so much greater that these planes would have to actually consider strategy.
If a fight progresses into more than a 1 circle the advantage quickly falls to the harrier. Getting shots off would be easy.
To add to this
They actually flew AV-8A against captured MiGs in Nevada and they wrecked the Soviet jets.
Not my logic.
Which variant are the MiGs they acquired?
Again I do not say I would necessarily increase it’s Br.
What about the other Harriers would they all get the improvements?
With the exception of a few specific upgrades like EEGS for the FRS1s, better RWR for the SQV FRS1 or Phimat pod for the Gr3 to name but a few.
Every other upgrade would come to all 14 universally. Especially the big ones like the heat sig improvements, better FM and engine upgrades. (all 5 of the major upgrades listed in the OP would be for all Harriers, but of course some differences between Harrier 1s and Harrier 2s)
That sounds a lot like a Br increase to me unfortunately.
Gaijin ist not consistent with Br increases ofc.
Mirage 2000C S4 is lower than S5 because it has some less countermeasures for example.
It really depends.
WIth 100% of the possible buffs / bug fixes sorted. Some may very well move, but also quite a few are tenatively over BRed already.
Looking through them all.
Harrier Gr1 with no CMs wont move, 9.7 is already pushing it. (I will also assume SRAAM gets buffed)
Harrier Gr3 and AV-8C are probably fine as well. 60 CMs isnt too bad for the BR either, but wouldnt be the end of the world if they end up at 10.0 assuming they were at full strength (phimat pod wont impact BR, its just chaff)
AV-8A and AV-8S with 240 CMs probably should be higher already, so defifnetly would move up to 10.0 at least.
Sea Harrier FRS1e is already pushing it a bit at 10.7 and would probably be more comfortable at 10.3 if it wasnt for the Aim-9Ls it carries. So I cant see any major changes there, at worse 11.0, but Id hope that would come with 9L buffs though.
AV-8S (late) wont get as many buffs as the FRS1 but trades that for having 4x more CMs so it would be fine at the same BR as the FRS1
Sea Harrier FRS1 would be fine at 11.3 (and is already at 11.3 in SB) with all the buffs and can always get 2-4x Aim-9M if truly needed
Harrier T10 could move up to 11.7 as it may if BOL gets fixed and it can always get 2x more BOL
Harrier Gr7 again, already pushing it a bit at 12.3 with no radar and subsonic, but can get 2x more AIm-9M
Sea Harrier FA2 is already over BRed and should be 12.7 at the moment. Full strength, it would comfortably sit at 13.0 and actually be half decent
AV-8B+ I cant see any real reason to move it up at the moment. Its not bad but it isnt great either.
So overall. Some might move, but not for quite a while. Buffs would if anything bring them in line with their current BRs rather than moving them up at all. Its not until the buffs start to accumulate that BR changes might start being needed and if/when that happens its fine, because its got the buffs it needs to justify it. Id rather be able to flare an R-60 at 11.0 in the FRS1e than not be able to at 10.7 for example.
AV-8S should actually get a twin sidewinder rail now that I think about it.
AV-8S (late) does already have them. I assume the AV-8S doesnt for balancing reasons.
They never had them IRL iirc.
The Americans never used them and we never sold them, so how on earth could they have them.
Im fairly certain I’ve seen it mentioned before.
I dont know if Thailand used them, but could very well be a carry over from Spanish Service.
@WreckingAres283 might have a source for it
Image is of the AV-8S Matador in service w/ Spain, with dual-rail AIM-9s.
