Saladin 90 - The British FV601 Saladin up-gunned with a 90mm cannon

[Sebbo_the_Plebbo]

[Would you like to see this in-game?]

• Yes
• No

History

The FV601 Saladin is a British armoured car developed in the 1950s as a replacement for Britain’s aging fleet of WW2-era AEC armoured cars. Production was assigned to Alvis, and designing was outsourced to Crossley Motors. Design work began in 1947, although development was delayed due to Alvis shifting their focus to the Saracen APC, which was urgently needed for operations in Malaya. Nonetheless, production of the Saladin commenced in 1958, shortly after which it entered service with the British Army. Only weighing 11 tonnes, the Saladin has a crew of 3 and an impressive top speed of 72 km/h. The base model Saladin is typically armed with a low pressure 76mm cannon capable of firing HESH and smoke shells.

The Saladin saw reasonable success in the export market, with over 20 countries purchasing the vehicle throughout the 20th century, including Germany, Australia, Portugal, Indonesia, Kuwait, Jordan and more. The Saladin remains in service with over 15 nations today, and is praised for its reliable performance in harsh conditions, such as the deserts of the Middle East.

However, the Saladin was notably outperformed in the export market by the French Panhard AML. The AML was both cheaper and better armed (in its 90mm variant) than the Saladin. The base model Saladin, only firing 76mm low velocity HESH and smoke, could only engage infantry and light targets. The AML 90, however, could engage much heavier and more armoured targets with its 90mm HEAT-FS, which was seen very favourably in the eyes of export customers.

The Saladin 90 is an attempt to up-gun the FV601 Saladin to the standard of contemporary armoured cars, likely in an effort to win over export customers, as well as extend the useful life of the Saladin for existing operators. The gun used is the 90mm 90/46 KEnerga Mark 8, developed in the 1970s by MECAR. The aim of the KEnerga development was to create a light, yet powerful, gun that could be mounted on wheeled vehicles weighing between 7 and 14 tonnes, while also being capable of dealing with the increasingly armoured threats of the Cold War. Capable of firing a full range of ammunition, from APFS-DS, HEAT-FS, HESH, and HE, the KEnerga Mk 8 provided a serious increase in firepower for the Saladin. As well as the boost to firepower, the Saladin 90 also received a 250hp turbocharged diesel engine, increasing its top speed to 89kph (55mph).

Why should it be added to War Thunder?

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Britain currently has a gap in cannon-armed armoured cars between the Eland 90 (7.7), and Rooikat Mk1D (8.7). The Saladin 90 would fit this gap perfectly, belonging at a BR of 8.0 - 8.3. As well as this, the Saladin is an iconic British Cold War light vehicle that is not yet in the game, and the Saladin 90 would be a more useful addition to the tech tree than the 76mm variant, with the Saladin 76 only being able to fire 76mm HESH rounds, which, given the current performance of 120 and 105 HESH currently, would be severely underutilised.

Specifications

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-Courtesy of Ed Francis

Images

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Sources

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Saladin 90 M46 Marketing Brochure, specifications sheet (courtesy of Ed Francis)

International Defense Review, 10/1988

Janes AFV Retrofits 1993-1994

https://web.archive.org/web/20040609030502/http://www.gklgroup.com/saladin90specification_1702.html

https://web.archive.org/web/20030825161018/www.gklgroup.com/saracen88specification_1703.html

https://tank-afv.com/coldwar/UK/Alvis_Saladin.php

[Spr4yz]

My War Thunder diet has a distinct lack of Saladins in it, unfortunately. I hope this can change that.
And a 90mm that has access to a KE penetrator? Yes, please!

[JamesPond1200-psn]

That is an absurdly huge gun for such a small turret and vehicle. I love it! Please Gaijin give us more British wheely bois! +1

[nathanclawfish]

Well time to suggest the rest of the saladin brood ;)

[Headnaught]

I wish we knew more about this vehicle. Optics, stabilizer, etc. +1 regardless

[Sebbo_the_Plebbo]

I agree, although I think we can make some solid conclusions from the evidence we have.

With the small turret and large, long barreled 90mm cannon it seems very unlikely that a stabilizer would or could be fitted. There is also no evidence of a stabilizer in the archived report of the cannon (below)

As well as this, all the external optics have remained the same as the 76mm Saladin, meaning there is no evidence that the fire control system has been changed or updated (meaning the same optics as the base model Saladin and no rangefinder).

These conclusions are also fairest for gameplay, as there is no risk of the tank overperforming with potentially fictional capabilities like a stabilizer or rangefinder.

But if anyone can dig up something more definitive it would be greatly appreciated.

[Headnaught]

@Sebbo_the_Plebbo

With the small turret and large, long barreled 90mm cannon it seems very unlikely that a stabilizer would or could be fitted. There is also no evidence of a stabilizer in the archived report of the cannon (below)

Well stabilization has nothing to do with the gun itself, rather the fire control system and turret drives.

[Sebbo_the_Plebbo]

I know, what I meant by this is two-plane stabilization requires several motors, gyroscopes and power sources, and is no small thing, so it may not have been feasible to fit the stabilization equipment in the small turret alongside the large breech for the 90mm and two crew members. But that is just conjecture on my part.

[nathanclawfish]

the saladin 90 is basically the thing that goes in the tree before the Scorpion 90, as it was complete repeat of what happened with the Saladin occurring with the Scorpion when it started to become obsolete.

[Sebbo_the_Plebbo]

So I did some more digging and found the following:

This article from International Defense Review 10/1988 goes into detail about the vehicle and changes in ammunition stowage, but nothing regarding upgrades to the FCS or an additional stabiliser.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040609030502/http://www.gklgroup.com/saladin90specification_1702.html

This is the archived marketing webpage from GKL group regarding the vehicle, detailing that it has been upgraded in the same manner as the Saracen 88

https://web.archive.org/web/20030825161018/www.gklgroup.com/saracen88specification_1703.html

And this is the marketing webpage for the Saracen 88, detailing the upgrades. Again, all these upgrades are ergonomic/mechanical. Obviously the Saracen 88 is basically an unarmed APC, but you think GKL would mention upgrade to the FCS on their marketing page for the Saladin 90.

As before, non of this is concrete proof, but I think the continuing lack of mention of any upgrades to the FCS or gun handling is a relatively convincing argument of the absence of those upgrades.

Off topic, but finally, here is an additional photo I found that (as far as I’m aware) wasn’t really in the public eye when it came to the Saladin 90:

Saladin 90, British Army Equipment Exhibition, Aldershot 1988

Photo by Adrian Arbib
https://arbib.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Arms-Exhibit1988/G00008I4sPBwelWU/I0000pFcfxvKGHMk

[Sebbo_the_Plebbo]

Found probably the worst quality pic of the Saladin 90, but this is the only one I have seen that shows the vehicle frontally.

[DarkLordMagus]

As far as I know, the Scorpion 90 was only ever mounted with the Cockerill Mk III, not the significantly more powerful KEnerga Mk VIII. So they’re not really the same.

[EL337GH0ST]

+1 for tech tree at 8.0 in realistic

[dantegamin]

+1 This is a great idea.

[Pudding_and_Tea]

Would love this!

[Jarms]

Absolutely needed.

[Sebbo_the_Plebbo]

Finally found a decent quality pic of this from the front. Shame that the colour is a little washed

[Sebbo_the_Plebbo]

I’ve revamped the suggestion, cleaned up some dead sources, added a new ammunition table to the specs, and replaced some photos with some higher quality versions courtesy of @ForeverAloneRage

^{Gaijin I am begging and pleading for the Saladin 90 please god}