Yeah give me a second, I found it like 1-2 weeks ago I gotta dig it up. I’m also flying in sim with my friend right now so I’m gonna finish that
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The Slovakian evaluation of the Gripen stated a 0.8 to 1.1 mach time of 40 seconds. These are under unknown conditions, but the Gripen in-game can get there in almost half that time with 20 minutes fuel, 2x AIM-9 Sidewinders, and at 30,000 feet of altitude currently.
It also seems to imply it was bested in performance by a block 70 F-16 with CFT’s on if I’m reading correctly.
The Block 50 w/ CFT (same engine as the one in the Slovakian test) does the approximate numbers of the test in 30,000 pounds configuration at sea level. Assuming these are the conditions I’ll compare the acceleration to the Gripen with full internal fuel and 2x AIM-9’s… which comes out to 18 seconds… right…
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JAS 39 thrust / acceleration report.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/J8NbUfjHEt4P
Additionally, it was once said the F-16MLU of the Norwegian airforce kicked Gripen butts in some red flag operations.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/955829235493273680/1186155306280034316/image.png?ex=65923836&is=657fc336&hm=f4f56a4470d2652e35394dff8cef18be41b76a306a59a4af6208c04ccd4d1b29&
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That’s like saying the FA-50 kicked the F-22’s butt in a DACT scenario. Doesn’t really mean a whole lot unless it’s 100 percent equal ground.
If we’re looking at exercises there’s this @MiG_23M
‘Gripen first participated in Red Flag 2006 with the Gripen A,’ says [Stefan Englund ], former Swedish Air Force Flight Engineer on Quora. ‘It was assigned to the red team. Reduced AWACS, reduced ground support. The Gripens connected their link systems and acted themselves as AWACs, got the battlefield awareness necessary and avoided all ground defence, scored 10 kills the first day including a Typhoon. No losses they remained undetected. One Gripen pilot knocked down five F-16 block 50+ during close air combat in Red Flag Alaska. And the Gripens never lost any aerial encounter or failed their mission objectives. It was the only fighter that performed all planed starts, while others were sitting on the ground waiting for the weather to clear up. The evaluation was that Gripen capacity needed to be revaluated.
‘And no disrespect to any other fighters, including Norwegian pilots because they’re just as well trained, but during a combat exercise with the Royal Norwegain Air Force, 3 Swedish Gripens went up against 5 RNAF F-16’s. The Result was 5-0, 5-0, 5-1 after having flown 3 rounds.
Englund continues: ‘During Loyal Arrow in Sweden, 3 F-15C’s from the USAF were intercepted by a Gripen acting as an aggressor. The result was 2 F-15’s shot down and one managed to escape due to better thrust/weight. To the F-15s defence it was on the Gripens back yard."
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Sounds about how I expected.
If you listen to Aircrew Interview Q&A with “Ate” Chuet (Rafale pilot) and Roger Cruickshank (Eurofighter Typhoon pilot) they both talk about DACT against the Gripen… They have the opposite of what Stefan said… In fact, a lot of people had some stuff to say about what Stefan said.
and to reference the 25-1 ratio in favor of Su-27 vs Gripen WVR again…
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Yeah well it’s one mans word against another… You’re not proving anything. I watched a QnA’s of a Gripen pilot saying the Gripen outperforms the F16 the other day. We’re not getting anywhere here.
Posts an article in which the Gripen went 42-34 overall vs the Flanker. Seems like a win for the Gripen.
Indeed it was, but not WVR.
You also conveniently left out "and the Swedish aircraft was handicapped in that it was equipped with the older-generation AIM-9L " Regarding the WVR combat trials.
Point is, exercise parameters and outcomes can be twisted around to fit a narrative.
What part of the gripen losing 25-1 in WVR to the Chinese Flankers is twisting anything to fit a narrative when we are discussing the Gripens’ agility?
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Norwegian F-16’s did just fine with AIM-9L/M against the MiG-29s with Archers.
We also know the Gripen got smacked by the Norwegian F-16’s, though.
They were using an inferior weapon set in the AIM-9L. Could they use AMRAAM? Was it 1v1? 2v2? Was there maneuver limitations? Where did each side start? All that matters. It just says WVR and the Flankers had a “performance advantage”. Doesn’t say anything else.
Mig29’s now? Not Su27?
No. We don’t.
There are sources saying the Gripen whooped the F16’s ass and sources stating the contrary. It’s like you can’t even fathom that sources not fitting your narrative are true.
You are shockingly bad at being source critical and your ‘indications’ for the Gripens performance with dodgy incomplete charts are just absolutely ridiculous.
It’s clearly biased and you even directly contradicted yourself to make the Gripen look bad in your first bug report when comparing it to the Mirage2000
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Additionally the top speed with air to air missile loadout is overperforming. Full air to air loadout should result in a reduction in top speed from mach 1.75 to just 1.4.
https://community.gaijin.net/issues/p/warthunder/i/IHX39MnphvmJ
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Here we go, another bug report with “unknown” loadout/conditions.
I honestly don’t have time for this. This guy has made it his full-time-job bringing down the Gripen. There seems to be zero regard for being source-critical with this guy and as much as I’d like to continue calling him out for these dodgy claims, I frankly have better things to do.
@Gunjob (you’re just the first moderator that came to mind)
I sincerely hope you guys have a good team of source-critical people looking over these dodgy claims/approximations made by @MiG_23M in the bug reports and the forums. But considering even one of your own technical moderators ( @Metrallaroja ) was tampering with / editing performance graphs of the Gripen and using it as a source - I’m not very hopeful.
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The air to air loadouts for 1993 were very limited with just two missile options… two sources say the same thing. Pretty easy to fill in the blanks on this one.
Fill in the blanks because it’s unknown. Interesting.