I would say that this mostly applies to older gen Delta wings like the Draken, Viggen and Mirage 2000 for example. With the aid of computers in designing the new Eurocanards, not so much. Of course pulling high AOA makes the plane more of an airbreak but the incredibly slippery surface of the plane in general makes up for it I would say.
The Gripen can keep up in a dogfight with the EF2000 so to nerf the Gripen by 20% over the already non-historical, ballance nerfs that the Gripen got before the Rafale and Eurofighter got added would be extremely dumb
The testimonies I am aware of pilots I am aware of are from the Thai pilots in their “base model” Gripens (MS18 or 19) going up against the Chinese, mostly in BVR I think and the Gripens shot down the Chinese without ever being picked up on radar.
There are also testimonies from different Red Flag excercises, among which Alaska 2006 I think where Swedish JAS 39A took part. no JAS was shot down during this excercise whilst performing all intended goals and being the only plane that never missed a takeoff.
Iirc at one random point a certain model of the Gripen was more expensive than another specific model of the F-35, again it’s just a joking bait meme that I’m surprised yall haven’t seen before lol, it’s a few years old by now.
(The rest of this message is for Pheonix in reply to a few messages, trying to limit to amount of message so send)
As an American I know full well that the US military’s vehicles shouldn’t be fully relied on when it comes to cost cutting measures and budget cuts. The Abrams isn’t exactly the best tank in the world if you ask me. It’s a great tank for the army and quite effective ofc, but it has its flaws, and it’s far from perfect.
The Chally is a great tank as well, aside from being larger slow and sluggish, which would be a welcome trade off ingame if it actually had some armor to make up for it (but gaijin be gaijin, clearly it’s made of air).
When did I say that? I’ve never even suggested that. Don’t put words in my mouth please…
Are you able to elaborate more on this concept? I’m not fully well versed in the games code when it comes to flight models to understand this issue quite fully, would love to know more about this issue as it’s relatively new to me and I seem to have glossed over it earlier!
I had assumed they were historical changes, were they not? If so then it wasn’t purposely left out, I was just unaware. I don’t fully keep up with big reports on vehicles unless there ones I’m highly interested in and care a great deal about.
I was mainly joking at the beginning of this conversation, l have no bias towards this aircraft for or against it. I’m simply trying to understand if it is truly overpreforming in a rate fight situation as it would be plausible to understand/expect from a Delta/Canard configuration. I may very well be wrong in my assumption as this aircraft could defy the norms of such a configuration, it’s very much possible and I understand that.
WHAT? 😭
Update ruined (I say as if it wasn’t already mid anyway)
That’s sounds like a fair and decent trade off I could get behind, although I feel like it will be awhile before we see changes to the instructor to allow for something like this.
We have but are tired of it. The upfront cost of buying one F-35A I think was just about the same or just a bit less expensive because of subsedies and benefits of large scale manifacturing. This does not take in to account the extreme cost of the entire project nor the facilities and repairs you need to preform once you actually have the plane. The F-35 needs to be pampered once it lands and be stored in a heated hangar while you can store the Gripen outside and land in 500m in the forest.
And the Rafale, EFT, F-16A, Flankers, F-15s, Mirages, J-10 and now hornet aren’t.
Not a single aircraft in game at these tiers feels remotely realistic or ‘physics abiding’, so to use that as an excuse to butcher the only place that the Gripen is still viable (sustained rate fighting) essentially makes it useless, it already isn’t doing to well with only 4 fox-3s and a limited radar compared to these newer ones; but to take it’s dogfighting ability away too is a bit obnoxious of a thing to back.
Thank you for a well written response :D. I cant answer your question about induced drag i will have to go look at some sources and ask around but i will give it a try and it is an interesting note worth checking.
From what I understand, the pilot is relatively well-known in air force circles across Northern Europe and the U.S., and has firsthand experience in various exercises. Most of these exercises rarely go public; when they do, the details are often scarce. Based on articles and personal knowledge, there are both simulated dogfights (sometimes limited by predefined equipment or missions) and more casual training engagements. I’m not certain how common they are now, but they do occur.
But i would again point out that from my understanding based on available testimonies, interviews and articles out there the Gripen’s current flight performance in game isn’t “overperforming” but rather the opposite. Real exercises (like Red Flag) saw older Gripen A fighters repeatedly outmaneuver F-16s and Typhoons, and the aircraft has scored clean sweeps (3 vs. 5) in dissimilar combat trainings just to mention a few, anyone from Scandinavia will have more experience from hearsays and local articles about more regional smaller face offs/excercises (ofcourse, Always take Everything with a grain of salt). Thrust-to-weight is still only part of the puzzle and the fact that it regularly beats higher-thrust jets in excercises should by now make it clearer that its much more to it than what people think.
Considering the F14s and MLD are the best performance swing wings in game its no suprise they generate a insane amount of lift with their wing when swept, a few charts has them going way beyond what they do at different speeds but most aircraft have better AOA than they should so its no suprise but all F14’s over perform in STR by about 22° less (should be around 15-17° so about 7° more than they should be)so on the A models since they have a weaker engine but still does effect them which makes them surprisingly good for 1 circle turn fights though considering the reports that F14 pilots could beat an F16 in a one circle im not suprised but those f16 pilots were likely limited to the 6G max at the time so i won’t use that. I dont have the charts on me but i believe its been sitting in bug report limbo for ages now. Only the MLD was actually adjusted by inducing far more drag to make up for its STR but ill need to check if its over performing in AOA. You can find similar reports for a lot of these and i mean the F-111 is one such example its just not supposed to be a fighter and so it was adjusted. Im inclined to believe gaijin may allow the F14 to overperform in its STR to make up for the fact they the radar has been gimped to hell so they gave it a boost for close infighting performance. Not really the forum topic to talk about this and im sure one exists but id need to do some testing with the wings but the wing sweep function has always been weirdly buggy with its lift and STR.
Flankers? Ehhh… they seem to need an energy retention buff from what I’ve heard, if anything they seem to be the most accurate of any 4th gen we have. The F-15E/I are the only ones that seem to be vastly overpreforming from what I’ve heard (mainly at low speeds). Everything else does definitely feel like they, and some factually are, overpreforming in multiple areas yes. But this is about the Gripen so I only brought them up. It’s the Gripen thread after all, but if you want my input then yes some others are overpreforming and I feel the same way about those UFOs as well. I can only imagine what aircraft like the F/A-18E with its amazin AOA and lift will be like if gaijin’s keeps this up… and looking at how the Su-30 be doing flips on the dev server right now, yeahhh…
I think Miika is referring to the current playstyle at top tier er well high tier. The Gripen is slower than the F-16 so you cant try to play the climb game but not like the F-16 is gonna do well in that regard. You essentially had one good thing going being dogfighting, the Gripen fails to be a decent BVR fighter for the current Meta of 8 Fox 3 with insane speed. The Gripen and F-16 have the least amount of Fox 3 in a area where having less arms means you have to be perfect with your shots, wasting them is not an option and if someone sees you you cant run away. Considering the Gripen in game are all fictional and don’t actually exist id be entirely fine with actual UFO’s since historical accuracy is only an excuse used by gaijin to keep stuff nerfed compared to the competition or to keep a vehicle at a BR they like.
Personally if i had the option between my curret 13.7 fights the Gripen will not and not ever been my first choice. Id rather my F15C, F16 maybe but depends on my mood. Su-27SM because tricking people into defending against a R77 then firing an ET is silly ;) then lastly would probably the IRIAF lmao because its stupidly good lol. Not even 14.0 yet its one of my most braindead vwhicles i play in a full uptier to 14.0 it does have problems but the amount of F15 and EFT’s that dont try to dodge the Fakour 90 is sad. The current difference between some of the 13.7 and 14.0 is so massive its actually silly. Even more so when considering some of the 13.0’s that are food for 14.0
I also noticed that the C model ingame are really tired at turning not just in circles but flygin strait and moving to left and right, it is WAY off and much to slow. Do we have any bug reports of the sort?
I think similar pictures have been posted when the MFD’s were very wrong. Doubt they will add all this functionality to the map though. As it shows everything that is going on around you in a whole new way.
people going into conspiracy theories because of a bug report to their favorite aircraft
yes it was neccessary gripen had 20% too much turn rate compared to irl
