SAAF JAS-39C Technical Data and Discussion

[Morvran]

The rafale has a slightly smaller frontal radar cross section I think.

[Morvran]

Not yet, but if it has the F16s radar as placeholder, then that is to be expected.

And possibly FA2. That is just based upon this:

The PS-05/A is a pulse-doppler radar currently used by the JAS 39 Gripen fighter aircraft (JAS 39A, B, C and D variants). It weighs 156 kg and was developed by Ericsson in collaboration with GEC-Marconi, sharing some technology with the latter’s Blue Vixen radar for the Sea Harrier (which inspired the Eurofighter’s CAPTOR radar).

[Rileyy3437-live]

I actually saw the opposite haha but I suppose it all depends. Either way its objectively false to say the Rafale has RCS reduction but the EF doesn’t, but i’ll give that the benefit of the doubt.

[Morvran]

Yeah, I don’t think it’s much, it’s to do with the curvier nature of the rafale, it helps a little. (I think) But for the most part, they are the same. I think it depends on a lot factors. (I could also be recalling the wrong info)

[F0x_Hunter]

In my opinion (although I’m not sure if this is a bug, rather just an error), the main drawback of the cockpit (besides the lack of a correct indication of the Cobra HMD) is the incorrect size of the radar on the MFD.

Spoiler

In this screenshot, in a graphic editor (what a big name for a regular paint, huh?) I cut out a virtual radar that shows the entire available range from 0 km to 37 km and tried to match it in size with the MFD as much as possible. As reference points, I used the indication of launch zones and contacts both on the MFD and on the virtual radar. I think it came out pretty close. I marked the boundaries of the MFD with horizontal yellow lines; beyond them, what the virtual radar shows does not show the MFD. According to my quick calculations, the MFD does not display the “far” ~2.5% of the radar (in the “37km” mode this is ~900m) and the “near” 8.3% of the radar (in the “37km” mode this is ~3080m). In total, ~10% of the radar is not displayed by the MFD.
This “a little” (A LOT) complicates life if you want to play without an interface, with maximum immersion.
I’ll probably report this bug. Technically, this bug can be fixed by simply reducing the MFD image by 10%. Maybe 11%. To be sure.

For new FM… Well… It seems now Gripen CAN go to sustained turn with approx 20 deg/s and unsustain (with start turn approx 400-450kn) approx 30 deg/s

[Faster_Boiiiii]

i think i understand the top one. it says 2 pcs because there’s 2 of them on the aircraft. one on the left, one on the right. there’s 1 bol dispenser per wing pylon so 4 in total is correct.

[DevilO6]

Yes, i posted that to the morvran BOL on the wingtip, as bol was not carried there afaik

[SUJA_THEBEST]

Yeah youre right, i checked on test flight map and i could go a little bit over 1430 with 6 missile and drop tank

[MiG_23M]

@Rileyy3437

This part confuses me? But i’d be happy to hear an answer.

Based on my modest understanding of stealth, I can’t speak for the Gripen but,

• The Eurofighter is 82% composite compared to Rafale’s 70% ,
• Both have S-ducts,
• The Eurofighter is more swept across the wing and I think the canard too,
• It has semi-recessed pylons and outer low observability pylons, whereas the Rafale must carry everything in completely unshielded pylons,
• The Eurofighter has radar absorbent coatings on the leading edges of the Canards, intakes, wing and tail in addition to the composite layer meanwhile the Rafale’s leading edge of the intakes are aluminium,
• The Eurofighter has a retractable refuelling probe,
• The Eurofighter’s MWS mounts are visibly more recessed into the airframe particularly for the tail mounts,
• Canard span and tail height are smaller on the Eurofighter,
• The radar on the Rafale is fixed whereas the Eurofighter’s radar can be tilted away from incoming signals to reduce RCS return.

On to the Rafale:

• Rafale obviously does not have ventral intakes which is an advantage
• Rafale also possesses serrated edges but is that really enough to make up for the previous points?
• I’ve further seen the claim that the Rafale has greater RAM coverage but i’ve seen no source nor any figure or even estimate as to total coverage.
• I’ve also seen the claim that the Eurofighters movable lip is a disadvantage despite the fact that this lip only moves when the aircraft is at slow speed and is fixed for the majority of its flight envelope, if its using the lip stealth does not matter because its now a WVR engagement.

I’m not sure about the Rafale but the eurofighters auto-trim means it flies with minimal canard movement (which would naturally increase RCS).

Even so every source I’ve seen points to them being roughly equivalent based on the plane with some higher and some lower but averaging out somewhere together. That is a conclusion I find perfectly acceptable.

Also, congrats on the FM bug reports.

I’d love to discuss this in DM’s or on discord. Send me a DM won’t you?

[MiG_23M]

@oppsijustkilledu

@CorporalApollo do you know what the loadout and fuel for the Gripen was in the stated 0.5 to 1.1 acceleration time. I feel like there is potentially still abit to much drag

One source stated 40 seconds 0.5 to 1.1 mach with air to air loadout, presumably a full one. Currently doing 35 seconds 0.5 to 1.1 mach on full fuel, so I would recommend just leaving it where it’s at. It matches several other datapoints including the supercruise ones so pleading to adjust it further could result in a nerf. The high alt acceleration is better as well for when y’all get the AMRAAM.

[Rileyy3437-live]

Of course but i’m not informed on these sorts of things its purely my own curiosity and limit knowledge of RCS reduction.

[Mytho-GR1]

@MiG_23M

The high alt acceleration is better as well for when y’all get the AMRAAM.

i doubt the SAAF one will get it but definitely good for Sweden

[oppsijustkilledu-psn]

Hopefully they might add the A-Darter to it in the future to keep it useable in the future. Yes it’s a silly high agility missile but it’s only 18km plus you can make better use of HOBS until we get the Eurocoomer and allows us to fire at jets direct behind us 💀

[Mytho-GR1]

@oppsijustkilledu

Hopefully they might add the A-Darter to it in the future to keep it useable in the future

i feel like it will be left behind like everything we have

[oppsijustkilledu-psn]

Likely yes but I guess if it does get left behind we might get other commonwealth craft until we get eurofighter. Hal Tejas would probably be a good addition tbh

[Mytho-GR1]

or cf18 to fill the naval gap

[DracoMindC]

I dont see why not it already has missiles the SAAF never used

[Spychicken]

How fast is the gripen at sea level clean now?

[Morvran]

It depends entirely how they handle fox 3 addition. I can see Sea Harrier FA2 or Tornado F3 AoP instead for patch 1 and possibly AMRAAM on the Gripen C to keep It going in a future patch. Unless Typhoon comes sooner rather than later. In which case keeping the Gripen C AMRAAM-less means we keep something at 12.3 to dogfight.

[Faster_Boiiiii]

yeah there’s no space for that