Well, we have the real numbers from NAVAIR and confirmed by QNEP so as I said… shouldn’t be an issue.
Yeah, if Gripen had that engine we’d be done :)
For what we care (high mach) is basically an -402, they both increased the turbine inlet temperature.
It can be argued that they can be different by a couple of 100kgf, but not by 2000kgf
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Right, and it’s worth noting the entire point of the -402 model engine was to satisfy the customers’ want for improved performance of their F/A-18’s. They assessed that the RM12’s higher flow fan would not yield any improvement in performance and would take a lot more effort to integrate into the F/A-18 airframe. (Likely requiring extensive changes to the intake scheduling).
I really do think that bringing the RM12 down to the same thrust as the (later) -402 model engine is generous… installed thrust for the Gripen would likely be less due to the lower tolerances for the modified -400 core.
likely?
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Yes, but MiG-23 also said that he would be more than happy to report the wrong drag then as well. Looking at the engines it indeed makes no sense for the RM12 to have it’s current values.
I am not saying the sources used are specifically correct, but seeing as how the ingame model keeps on increasing thrust WELL past the treshold of the others makes me doubt the current thrust curve…
I am not saying it should be the same as from those sources, but the current one is honestly even less believeable.
I also want to adress that, while I do agree with a lot of your points, I don’t share the same view of “They are doing this because they hate sweden and are evil”. I believe they found those sources and try to correct something wrong. It’s just that they do look very biased, I am however not the one to judge wether they indeed are or it just looks like it because it seemingly hits our nerves.
I can look for some Swedish sources for RM12
If one cant report this anymore like some guys here are making it sound, I should retire because I will not be able to make any other report
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Now imagine the incorrect drag values required to make the top speed ~1.2 mach for the Gripen in-game with all that thrust… people going nuts over my report like this isn’t just fixing the airframe. It’s not an intentional nerf.
I think there’s lots of toxicity in this thread, yes. Some people have gotten very defensive over prospective nerfs (me included, perhaps, although I don’t think I’ve been unpleasant).
It’s quite possible that RM12 has too much thrust in game right now. I don’t know, and I haven’t been convinced by the sources as discussed here. But thrust is not a “naked” quantity in WT, we never see just thrust. Acceleration is close to what it should be, so if thrust is increased, drag needs to decrease. The reason people get defensive is that they don’t trust that Gaijin will also decrease the drag. There are many cases of vehicles getting broken and then just not fixed again.
The F404/RM12 differs from previous F404 versions in:
• new fan with 10% increased flow capacity and increased bird
resistance
• modified stator regulation in the high-pressure compressor
(HTK)
• increased pressure level
• higher turbine outlet temperature
• improved material in turbine and afterburner
(EBK)
• modified afterburner (EBK)
• digital control system
• single engine version
The plane just rips its wings, there is no drag limit at SL
The energy retention at high speeds tho…
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“The development resulted in the engine getting a bigger fan, which increased the air flow by 10%. All parts in the fan were thus replaced, which gave the engine greater resistance to bird collisions. To test the resistance, half-thawed pigeons were shot into the engine!”
LOL
“Of the original F404J engine, only 50% remained and Volvo Aero now became the owner (OEM) of the RM 12.”
Bug report time, gotta make sure it can survive those damn half-thawed Pigeon AAMs
The F404/RM12 differs from previous F404 versions in:
• new fan with 10% increased flow capacity and increased bird
resistance
• modified stator regulation in the high-pressure compressor
(HTK)
• increased pressure level
• higher turbine outlet temperature
• improved material in turbine and afterburner
(EBK)
• modified afterburner (EBK)
• digital control system
• single engine version
In 2003, a new EBK system was introduced in the RM 12 with cooled flame holders as the old flame holders had too short a lifespan. The new EBK system was developed entirely by VFA and also received international attention. To replace the old flame holders, the entire engine must be removed from the aircraft. With the new system, only the worn parts could be replaced while the engine remained in the aircraft.
Of the original F404J engine, only 50% remained and Volvo Aero now became the owner (OEM) of the RM 12.
In November 2010, Volvo Aero reported how the RM 12 could be developed into the “RM 12EF” and replace the General Electric F414G that was trial installed in the Gripen Demo (Gripen NG or JAS 39E/F). Volvo Aero estimated that the F414G would be 30-40% more expensive over the entire life cycle.
After the orders from Switzerland and Brazil were received, the GE F414G was chosen as the engine for the Gripen NG. Volvo Aero instead invested in upgrading the existing approx. 220 RM 12 engines in JAS 39C and D. The upgrade consisted of optimized engine control in FADEC, a newer already developed turbine and more efficient fan.
Seems like Gripen C/D got a nice engine upgrade
The JAS 39C/D did get an engine upgrade sometime recently, but this would be a /late variation if anything in my opinion and we know literally nothing about the upgrade as far as I’m aware.
These are airframes that have been flying with other upgrades like HMD, radar, Meteor missile, IRIS-T, etc.
My brother the SAAF one is 2005 it would have this
They received the order to upgrade the engine / radar / etc in 2022.
Yeah, I’ve seen the 2022 engine upgrade order - probably not relevant for war thunder since I haven’t seen completion of the upgrade? I could be wrong
Here’s an article citing SAAB at that conference in 2011
“When it comes to the thrust produced, the aim is an increase of 2% to 15%, depending on customer requirement.”
“We have stated previously that it is possible to significantly increase the thrust of the existing RM12 engine at a very competitive cost. We will then have a more powerful and economical engine. It also means that we can upgrade the 220 engines that the Air Force already has whilst maintaining engine competence within country,” says Henrik Runnemalm, Head of Research at Volvo Aero.”
Maybe these are connected?