T-80 has good mobility, but in terms of T-72/90, they struggle heavily.
You say that, but then I’ve also one tapped russian, and chinese MBTs frontally with spikes from the Namer. Whilst then a nato MBT soaking one directly on the roof.
Please show me a NATO MBT IRL being able to survive a long rod penetrator through say the lower glacis at 1km range.
They are fantastic machines, and certainly better than Russian tanks IRL hwoever they are not some hyper armoured indestructible machines.
The fact is even some of the most well defended MBTs for their times have been penetrated by not even long rods, CR2 being penetrated by an RPG9 ? was it? shows just that.
He says as NATO MBTs have the highest penning darts in game by a large margin.
DM53 is nearly 700MM of pen mate if you need higher than that, then massive skill issue.
shock horror auto loaders soak spall and eat darts for literally every tree it’s RNG based which has been proven time and time again.
Leopard roof MGs are nutorious for eating even up to 3k LB bombs man, what’s this one isolated event supposed to show lol, I’ve got a picture of my WZ1001 after taking a direct hit from a KH38MT, 2 of them to be exact and driving off as if nothin happened.
Jag missiles are doing just fine mate, not as good as LMURs but still absolutely destroying top tier lol
Agreed but they’ve began to at least rectify it -.- never should of happened.
Clutching at straws here mate, stat shark shows Pantsir had back before the new SPAA dropped about a 1.48 KD, IRIS T had after just a month nearly 3.0KDm was about 2,89 or such, which is nearly Double pantsir.
No one batted an eyelid.
all helis which are about 11.3 and up are completely obsolete now due to the new SPAA; not just tigers, I’ve got the AH64 Paten and it’s useless.
That’s a disadvantage for russian tanks which are
- less mobile.
- worse rounds so less room for error than DM53 slingers (and ofc M829A2 slingers)
- no reverse gears.
You do not need to pixel hunt, at all man, you just don’t need to shoot the UFP.
The one armoured spot.
No they don’t I use high motion blur and max graphics and can hit them no worries at all.
eh they hve a -4 reverse gear, if they mess up theri shot they aint getting out your sights, plenty time enough to aim, hit them and move if you need to.
Or just fire again, and finish em off if you somehow bugger up the first shot so bad.
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1 they do not have the same speed going forward at all, the only Top tier russian MBT which is anywhere near the same as NATO MBTs is the 80BVM.
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2 they do not have basically the same reload at all lol, most top tier MBTs have a 5 second reload, or if you aren’t aced, 5.3 seconds. Abrams, Leclerc, Type10, CR2, Ariete, Merkavas.
All load substantially faster than the T80BVM , bever mind T90M.
Bushmaster sucking doesn’t mean all NATO IFVs suck?
The AJAX was doing just fine, pumas not bad, the FReccia n such are also pretty damn potent.
Type 89 is strong as hell as well for it’s BR.
I’ve got one and have no idea how it’s broken, i hate the thing with a passion.
huge skill issue brother
If I can pen an IS 3 with a damn M26 with the short 90MM then you can with the long 90 found at 7.3.
yes you can, LFP , drivers port, turret roof.
Lower forntal plate, drivers port, cupolas effectively don’t shoot the huge ass peen on the thickest part and it’ll go through
No you don’t, at all.
Lower frontal plate can one tap em easy as pie.
What? The T32E1 at 7.7 for example is a monster at its BR.
The M103 I started to take it back out, exchanging its heat for the AP and it absolutely slams as well.
Conquoror? cuts through russian MBTs and heavies like butter.
Tell me, what russian mBT has IRST? with proxy HE? the T90M does not have proxy HE it has time fused which is pretty piss.
Which are completely useless lol? they’re a gimmick but if you are using them, or have died to them then skill issue.
your initial points on lMUR and such are not that debatable but pff the vast majority of what you said is uneducated slop about the vehicles and game
EDIT: after a quick look at your statistics it does show quite clearly why you believe what you do. You barelt manage over 900 score a game. How’s that even possible.
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I did actually mate lol DW
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As I stated before, only the 0-30 time maters, because it is related to the actual speed you have midfighting someone.
The 0-60 and top speed don’t mater, because russian MBTs will just camp hull down somewhere (so no need for them to flank), or rush you in corners midfight.
Concerning the 0-30 speed, t-90, t72, t80, leos, leclercs, abrams, types, even challengers : they’re all the same speed more or less. We’re talking about X/10th / X/1th here.
Russian and NATO MBTs basicaly have the same speed
The turret weakspots look smaller on Abrams compared to T-80BVM because the vehicle is larger, but the initial weakspots are about the same size.
The biggest irony is once the turret ERA of T-80BVM is gone, the entire turret is the weakspot.
T-80BVM’s turret weakspot to armor ratio is higher than Abrams’ turret.
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This is one of the stupidest statements relating to mobility that I have ever heard.
You say that, but then I’ve also one tapped russian, and chinese MBTs frontally with spikes from the Namer. Whilst then a nato MBT soaking one directly on the roof.
I stopped reading there.
I know you, I know you will defend Russia on things that cannot be defended (in this case my points), so I won’t read or answer further.
By whos decree? your own? lol no all the speeds ad times matter, a leopard 2a5 or a6 will get to it’s position way before a 2a7 or a T90M will.
T80BVM will get there and out position other vheicles.
ANd so on and so on.
He says as if russian tanks have A : gun depression for relaibly hull down.
B: reverse gear for maintaining a defensive stature.
C: Better turret armour than NATO MBTs.
No they are not.
They also depending on terrain, and movement of player get to positions different times, CR2 loses Way more speed if it turns than say an abrams.
not at all.
Play a match in russian mBTs you’ll be left behind xD
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It’s just pure logic, at this point it’s just defending Russia blindly without admiting the truth man.
The lack of self awareness is honestly funny.
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Shows your character mate.
Why stop reading cause I’m saying something which goes against your russian bias narative?
I’ve skiffed type 90s with spikes and nuked the whole tank then had direct hits do “hit” spikes are nutoriously buggy. Nothing to do with russian ERA, wHICH BY THE WAY, British ERA stops them just the same.
Becuase I’ve used 8 out of 10 nations in thsi game to top tier over the span over just over 4 thousand hours and know more about the vehciles in question?
The fact is like I said your points about LMUR are fine, the rest about the long 90 struggling at 7.3 is total bollocks and is user error not the game at all.
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It’s not at all lol, mobility and speed are two distinct differnet things.
Russian MBTs have overall worse mobility than NATO MBTs that’s not even a debatable fact.
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Dude’s refusing to read what i said, It’s pointless to continue this discussion I’m just gonna block em man.
Posting your own crap on a forum then refusing to read another persons response, which is actually properly written with coherent counter arguments, just becuase. Is not why I am here.
EDIT; Done.
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You don’t want to see your favorite russian tech tree being nerfed, we understand man.
No need to defend Russia blindly like that. You won’t even admit 1 point against Russia is real, hell you even defended how Spikes perform.
There is no need to argue with you, it’s like talking to a wall.
This is why i’ve stopped giving him any more attention than he deserves. Not worth the time to discuss with given his ignorance.
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You don’t want to admit the russian bias is real while THOSE EXIST :
There is something important you need to understand that is explaining why people are complaining about the russian bias :
- Spikes/MMPs are broken (gotta love hitting commander MG 2 times in a row, a cannon then 6 ERAs eating the ATGM) ;
- NATO MBT armors being paper compared to reality and russian MBTs ingame ;
- NATO MBTs getting nerfed to the ground (turret basket and electronics everywhere now, except the Arietes I think. We’re still waiting for t-series basket, maybe in 8 years we don’t know) ;
- NATO MBTs not getting their best DART (Leos, Leclercs)
- T-series model are broken (ERAs and autoloaders eat DARTs ( Russian Bias in 2026? - #1603 by SnuggyNyx , unbelievable), ERAs eat ATGMs, the whole model eat bombs ( Stalinium armor? - #684 by TROOPER7 : what is THIS seriously ??!)
- LMURs top down approach are correctly modeled, as well as their damage model => AH-64E AGMs are completely BROKEN compared to these, you usually need 2-4 missiles to destroy MBTs/SPAAs/BMPTs
- BMPTs are broken, no need to develop here
- Pantsir-S1 currently best SACLOS SPAA in the game (12 ready-to-fire missiles, multi targeting system). Let’s not even talk about the next 12.7 Pantsir, this will end top tier experience pure and simple ;
- Tiger helicopters still at 12.7, why ? 8 FnF missiles VS 16 for other helis, 7-8 km max range VS 16/25 km max range for other helis, no IRCM, climb slower than other helis, HAC and UHT don’t even have a cannon ;
- 75% of small maps, advantaging russian MBTs because they rush you in corners
- To shoot at russian MBTs, gotta go pixelhunting. Urban debris on the ground ? Good luck shooting at LFP. The MBT does zigzags ? Good luck shooting at LFP. The MBT has bushes all over UFP ? Good luck shooting at driver’s port/breach (especially when you have the blur motion on, and that those bushes will “melt” with the tank’s armor in a blurry weird way). You shoot at russian MBTs from far away ? Good luck, gotta go pixel hunting. NATO MBTs in comparaison ? You point, click and shoot. Simple, easy.
- Russian MBTs don’t need to have the best pen, because NATO MBT armors are paper. They have basically the same speed going forward. They now have basically the same reload speed as well (6.4sec reload = +/- the 6sec reload some NATO MBTs have). They of course have so much armor that even top NATO darts can’t frontaly pen.
- IFVs : russians have IFVs with much higher fire rate, laser accuracy, 2 cannons (1 main for HE/ATGMs, 1 autocannon), much faster than some wheeled NATO IFVs. NATO IFVs in comparaison ? Bushmaster, completely garbage.
- Yak-9k, completely broken.
- Been playing some 7.3 US recently. Noticed something. Russian heavy/medium tanks, and some of their tank destroyer, are almost unpenable, IF YOU PLAY A NATO HEAVY TANK AGAINST THEM. IS-3 ? Gotta go pixel hunting in that turret neck. IS-4M ? Same, but the spot is even tinier (gotta love bouncing on its side with a 224mm pen shell too). T-10M ? Don’t even think you can pen that. Object 268 ? Gotta go pixel hunting in that driver’s port. T-54/55 ? Gotta go pixel hunting in that tiny cupola, berely visible). Hell, even some of their T-34/44 will bounce if their turret is angled weirdly. NATO heavy/medium tanks in comparaison ? Multiple weakspots, side will not bounce against a shell (even against russian SPAAs lmao), if you turn your turret a little bit, you’re done.
- T-series MBTs have IRST + HE + Proxy HE + ATGM shells. Some NATO MBTs don’t even have any of that.
- Sweedish IFVs still don’t have IRST
So many more things could be said. NATO SPAAs don’t have cannons. Russia has literally 10 MBTS/IFVs they can use at top tier, worning out NATO forces because they don’t have as many => which leads to constant losses against Russia at top tier GRB. Russia has that 1 ship that doesn’t even exist. KH 38s don’t exist too as well. In the main trailer, it’s the russian MBT that wins against the Abrams. When the AH-64 launches missiles against the russian MBT, we can’t see if the tank exploded or not, because they cut the scene. A lot, lot more.
It’s all of these problems that lead NATO to constantly loose against Russia, especially at top tier. They’re just more advantaged than the rest of the nations. The bias is real, it’s not paranoia man.
It is not coping, it’s just the plain truth, and every russian main knows it. They know they play the game in tutorial mode compared to others.
You just don’t want to say a single thing bad against Russia man
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Here I go defending USA and NATO again.
1- That would be all F&F missiles, not just Spikes.
2- Didn’t know Abrams, Leopard 2s, Strv 122s, VT-4 [if you’re going to count T-80BVM], etc weren’t armored… Oh wait, they are.
3- This was voted on and demanded by the community. Also this implies Soviet tanks are NATO… T-series and Challenger tanks don’t have baskets IRL BTW. Baskets also shouldn’t prevent manual traverse at minimum.
4- Leopard 2s are firing the 2nd best MBT dart in the game.
5- ERA does not eat darts.
The round penetrated in your example.
All tanks eat bombs to an extent. Unless you’re claiming all 10 tech trees are Russia.
6- I’ve yet to see anyone post evidence LMUR’s guidance path is correct.
7- Uhuh…
8- Best SACLOS SPAA overall is probably HQ17 mixing good range with high maneuverability.
9- So Tiger helicopters being a lower BR is evidence of what exactly? Are you claiming German bias now?
10- Most top BR maps in the game are large.
Smaller maps benefit higher mobility tanks and harm tanks with low mobility and too much reliance on frontal armor. T-series tanks get harmed the most on close quarters maps due to not being able to utilize front hull armor as well as medium to long ranges.
Meanwhile Ariete doesn’t have any negatives going up close because its armor is bad regardless of range.
11- To shoot T-80BVM I shoot their idler wheel/side armor on CQC maps, and turret at longer ranges.
T-90M I shoot their breech on longer ranges maps, and their idler wheel/side armor on CQC maps.
I’ve been doing this tactic against T-series tanks since 2019.
12- Refer to point 2.
13- The best Soviet IFV is BMP-2M currently… it’s not the best overall. It’s good, not the best. None have more than 1 cannon.
14- Okay there buddy…
15- Yeah? T32E1 is even more unpennable than IS-3 from the front. Welcome to heavy tanks.
16- Admitting that NATO MBTs have this ruins your argument.
17- Correct, Saab didn’t install IRST onto IFVs [at least the older ones]. Not sure what that has to do with this though…
Edit:
By the by, out of all of these statements the only ones that are my takes are the following:
Being reliant on armor over not being hit by a round in the first place is the opposite of what you should do.
I don’t know the accuracy of LMUR’s trajectory in War Thunder compared to real life.
I called for Tiger helicopters to be a lower BR than AH-64s and Mi-28NMs and am glad that occurred.
A 2x2km map is not small…
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I agree with most bar this
Pantsir easily takes the best SACLOS SPAA slot, with the closest example being ITO and then ADATS?
ITO and ADATS for maneuvering.
HQ17 still has notably higher agility over Pantsir’s missile while having a 15km range.
And Pantsir is only meta against helicopters, while the other 4 are as well [ADATS less so due to 10km limitation, but so far helicopter CAS users aren’t exploiting that limitation], while also pressuring close range CAS [fixed wing] better than Pantsir can due to the higher agility missiles.
If Pantsir is good against fixed-wing, the other 4 are good to great.
Of course, none of them can do as much damage as the 12.7 SPAA.