Russian Teams Steamrolling NATO - Top Tier is Broken Again?

MRML and R-77 dual pylons are only the same situation if Su-30MKI [for Britain] comes in with the dual pylons.
MRMLs on F-15C [I forgot the variant they’re introducing recently IRL, not the one in-game] is akin to Su-30SM, MKM, and SM2 getting them.

Su-35 and F-15EX getting dual-mount pylons are equal to each other.

And as you admitted here:

This quote of yours indirectly defends Su-30MKM, SM, and SM2’s R-77 count.

Without evidence that Su-30SM/MKM/SM2 use legacy fire control systems to Su-30M of some type, and Su-35, we cannot prove that those Su-30s are incapable of using an asset developed for advanced Flankers.
And without access to an Su-27SM2/3 manual, we don’t know one way or the other.

And if your argument is “Well, Su-30SM documents are classified and we can’t equip those because we can’t grab classified documents to prove Gaijin’s position.” then that position can be used to justify the removal of systems from NATO equipment as well.

As for LMURs, reducing them to 4 would reduce the Mi-28NM’s BR. This is not my stance, this is a consequence of the BR system.

I’ve never made a claim on Su-27SM2/3, not once.
I’ve defended Su-30MKM’s missiles, because that’s from 2019.
And without evidence to prove otherwise, standardizing fire control computers among aircraft is standard practice in the aviation industry. If you want to claim that a 2019 Flanker uses a worse fire control computer than a 2014 Flanker, I want to see proof.
If you’re not going to claim that, cool we’re on the same page.

Oh, and if the Su-27SM2/3’s double mount is correct.
The reason it wouldn’t be on the dual-pylon brochure is because the document was made prior to the SM2/3 upgrades of the Su-27SM.

This is not a claim, this is an explanation on documentation & dates.

Nice gaslight lol.

Fire control ≠ weapon carriage.

Let’s get this straight:

  • Weapon carriage is simply whether the airframe can physically hold a weapon on a pylon.
  • Fire control is the actual ability to fire that weapon.

I don’t get how this is so hard for you to understand.

There’s no proof that a dual pylon can be mounted on Sukhois other than the Su-35. The burden of proof is on you to show it can be done. It is not our job to disprove something that has never been demonstrated to begin with.

Take the MRML on the F-15C GE as an example:

  • It can be mounted and fired because the wiring and fire control exists. The inner pylon + airframe can also handle it.

  • By contrast, the F-15C GE technically has fire control for missiles on the outer wing pylons, but it can’t actually fire them due to missing wiring and airframe instability. Fire control alone doesn’t make it possible. Same is true for the R-77 situation.

So saying a non-Su-35 dual-rack R-77 is ready to go is basically like saying, “We can just slap outer wing pylons on an F-15C GE instead of an F-15EX and it will work.” It doesn’t. Structurally and electrically, it’s not supported.

Until someone actually shows this is possible on non-Su-35s, all your claim are just speculation.

Have you been living under a rock or just trolling right now? NATO equipment has been suffering from that for years lmao. Challenger mantlet, Abrams hull armor, AMRAAM performance, and so many more. If documents are too classified to prove it, tough luck for the Su-30SM. Get in line behind 99% of modern stuff in WT.

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@CyrusJacob

Okay. Glad to see you parroting my own take and agreeing with me. Not sure what you expect by parroting my takes…

However, we’ve already proved that Su-35/30/27 can physically hold those weapons, what has not been proven by you or others is if Su-27SM’s upgrades ever included a fire control computer capable of using more than 6 R-77s, and the dual pylons being compatible with the electronics.

I’m unsure how this claim that Su-35 cannot carry its own weapons came from.
Do you think the aircraft was/were Su-34 in those images?

Again, the burden of proof is on someone that claims a newer variant of an aircraft removed support of a weapon system.
Claiming Su-30MKM cannot use the double mounts is akin to claiming F-16C Block 50 cannot use AIM-7s.

There has been no evidence posted anywhere on the forum proving the myth of Su-35 being a different airframe to other Flankers.
The only images shown prove larger wings.

I normally don’t cry “bias” but as of recent they have been ridiculous with new Russian equipment, initially putting the bmpt at 10.3 was the tipping point for me. I’m honestly surprised they moved it up so quick.

Meanwhile western equipment is assumed the worst performance unless you take an example to gaijin headquarters and do a live demonstration.

Yet recent real life events have proven Russian equipment to be mostly propaganda hype.

Clearly you failed to understand my post. There’s no definitive proof the Su-27/30 can physically carry or has the needed wiring for it. Same as how a newer program of the F-15E still wouldn’t magically make it able to carry outer wing pylons like the EX unless the EX FBW + wing wiring was added to it.

Where is the valid proof for 30 and 27 serie carrying it then? Manufacturer info(be it a brochure, or statement) or picture. Post it here. Unless you do, don’t bother answering. Seriously. This debate has been talked to death.

Bring the proof, or stay silent.

@CyrusJacob
The proof of Su-30 is the R-77 double pylon brochure at minimum.
A citation doesn’t require a link, though I’d provide one if I had it on hand.

And by all means prove to us Su-27SM can electronically use them if you want.
Otherwise stop bringing it up to people that aren’t talking about that.

Also Sukhois are already fly by wire…

Dude I asked you for the proof and you bring nothing. Bring a link, a picture, anything to close this discussion. Otherwise as said, stay silent.

@CyrusJacob
I gave you the brochure existing, with the indication to find the name of the pylon again.
A name which I know both of us found at some point, but clearly forgot.

The citation was added. Moving the goalposts to a link just because the citation isn’t the best doesn’t change the citation.

Just as when I cited M60 AMBT’s PDF, and someone used that to find it on wayback.
It’s not an ideal citation in the slightest, not to my own standard, but it’s the best I can provide due to never saving the brochure, nor writing the name of the R-77 dual pylon down.

So nothingburger. ‘I saw it’ ‘Trust me’ and what not. Okay cool. As expected.

The R-77 is just easy to bleed out of energy thanks to it’s drag, it’s mythical range advantage will only manifest against either submissive F-18 players, or F-15 bots high on the most truthful documentary that is Top-Gun that believe the hand of reagan will slap away any missile coming their way, and consider turning beneath them.

In the end, the MICA bin both anyway.

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Well I appreciate the feedback I do wish that they could actually model the variable drag of the r77 but I know that game has its limitations

Russian Bias = Coping for massive skill issue.

Ground RB: Most russian tanks have only 2 advantages over western counterparts: Frontal ERA packages resulting in a better frotal protection and low profile picture. Every russian MBT up until T-72B3 and T-80BVM have abysmal fire controls compared to most western vehicles.
The T-72 transmission is their greatest liability, slowest my a GREAT margin compard to every other vehicle.
Russian MBTs had the slowest reload times, except T-80BVM wich now has a 6s reload instead of 6.5, while T-90M sits at 7s (for comparison: Abrams/Merkava/Leclerc: 5s (ace), Type 90/Type 10/TKX 4s, Leopards and Ariete 6s (ace))
Every russian MBT if it doesnt have a ace crew have a 80% chance of dying to fuel explosion, 99% chance of being destroyed if the ammo is hit.
Every advantage a russian tank has is easily countered by a well placed shot, and a well placed shot is the core of Top Tier GRB
BMPT was indeed a stretch being placed at 10.3 (put there for sales, its good for the business), however the only reason they had such a great win rate was because they were spammed, also people still dont know how to shoot and also leave after 1 death. BMPT is just as easy to destroy as any other RU MBT with again, a well placed shot.
BUK-M3 even tho has a great rocket is fairly easy to multipath, probably easy to notch at longer ranges. Also as most multi-SAM with only ARH missiles, cannot hit helicopters consistently (since rotor blades are not modeled in radar idk how to explain this), IRIS-T here does everything better.

Helicopters: Ka-52 cant even be used anymore since the adition of IRIS-T
Mi-28NM can easily be countered by Beam Riding/SACLOS launchers, and multi SAMS can intercept missiles, but a lot spAA players are too greedy for a kill that they forget that they should also take out missiles.

CAS: Kh-38MT: easily countered by an IRIS-T, CS-5A5, NASAMS, CLAWS and even smoking your position and changing locations after smoking, but that requires awareness, which 70% of the players lack at top tier. If you see a kill feed with 6 teammates destroyed by a single plane is a team issue, Gaijin didnt add spAAs just to sit in the lineup. Same story with LMURs

Aircrafts: MiG-29 platforms rot in rust, arguably worst plane you can have
13.0 Su-27/33: before ARH missiles were released had 3 advantages: HMD and R-27ER nad TWS. However the airframe was complete bottocks, if you didnt manage to hit all your ERs you would have lost all your dogfights. Now they face most of the times 13.3 premiums and 13.7 ARH missile carriers, where F-15C, F-16C, Su-30MKK, J-10/11 etc completely outshine you, not to mention Su-27 RWR.
13.3 Su-30MK AMV, a cahsgrab vehicle, too strong at 13.3 but remember thre is Su-30MKK which is even beter since it has 6 PL-12s at 13.3. Every 12.7-13.0 plane is a scarifice for lvl 12 premium bots
13.7 Su-27SM: arguably one of the worst FOX-3s (R-77s going limp after 12km if the targets takes a turn) at that BR (compare to AIM-120A/B/C, MICA-EM, PL-12 etc) if you dont get into close range with it you are cooked, at least you can dogfight now after the flight model buff
Su-30SM/SM2, very good planes, with finaly a usable FOX-3 beyond 12km but just because they are good doesnt mean they are unkillable, or because there is Russian Bias, every other jet at that BR can do the same thing a 30SM can do (Rafale does it best)

If you’d get better, you would see that is extremely easy to counter russian vehicles, so easy in fact that I finished Japan tech tree in less than 2 weeks with Type 90 farming T-80U-E1s and BMPTs, and having a >2.0KD in Sweedish Leopards, even in M1A1 I have a 1.8KD and it was back when I was still learning the game.

Crying on forums wont get your skills up, nor you will have a better experience fighting Russia

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That is facts, bro, facts. I’ve been saying most of the NATO mains. AK Americans specifically have the picture of the Abrams as an unkillable god, and it’s because of all the Desert Storm documentaries. It’s literally the same problem as with a Tiger 1 glazer. Unfortunately I played this game for long enough to realize that 90% of the players always think that the grass is always greener on the other side. Which is, in fact, not real. Every country has its benefits and drawbacks, and Russia is not an exception. Because it’s easier to say (insert nation) has bias than actually learning the game and realizing your lack of skill.

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I grinded germany and israel, then in december bought and used the ztz96a p (which its kinda like a t-serie tank) and got 2 nukes in 3 days, when my last nuke was more than 1 year ago when played with other nations.

I definitely felt better protection and survival from the ztz than the leopard2a4 or the merkava 3. And its because of trolly armor, or autoloader hits that escentially means nothing bc I can still shoot back if a round loaded.

Now recently Im having issues of kontakt 5 ERA deleating sabot rounds when it shouldnt, and ofc the usual fuel depot issue. (Also applies for bmpt)


So yeah I noticed a pattern there

Yeah, their tanks suck, their armor sometimes shreads a perfect shot.

About the Mi-28 and Ka-52: You said they can just be killed by a saclos or bream riding missile, so how do I combine that with an IRIS-T to kill jets? FlaRakRad sucks, do I steal an enemy pantsir?
Ka-52 is still the most survivable heli without LDIRCM.

About the Kh-38: yes, you can shoot them down, but let’s be real, they turn enough to wipe a maneuvering heli, they are the fastest and a hit anywhere will kill the target.
What do others get? Mavericks? I once fooled one by tapping S and it just kissed the ground.

And LMURs are just broken, 0 documentation, yet they have the best implementation. Check the LMUR vs JAGM lofting thread, you’ll be suprised.

I think the abrams has more than 37mm of frontal hull armor but Gaijin seems to think otherwise.

No need to downplay Russian aircraft LMAO

This game is a “Play Russia to win” game.

Russia steamrolls everything. On purpose.

Damn I think I missed that memo, because my NATO top tier winrates last month have been just fine.

I guess the memo got lost in the mail.

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Bro has less than a 100 games in top tier and got the nerve to complain lmao

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