Renzo be like:
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“If i cherry pick an example from 6 different tech trees as a counterexample to 1 i will always be correct”
This cobbling together of NATO into one argument like we dont have a mixed matchmaker is so insanely stupid and just serves as a coping strategy for rubots.
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This right there is my favorite.
Like you mentioned they portray as if every game NATO vs Russia while mm throws bunch of nato members right next to Russians and compensate their only weakness.
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So NATO is profiting of Russian bias, thats annoying.
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Yeah now imagine current NATO winrates if they werent teamed with russia from time to time.
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So Abrams and leopard are bad now
Eurofighter? Rafale? F-18A? Early hornets? Golden eagle?
Not to mention countless other NATO equipment
German top tier ground definitely is terrible
Same for USA, France and Italy
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How is it not lol, best MBT nato, some of the best lineups BR for BR are in NATO.
They aren’t dominant in cas which is ridiculous As I have stated god knows how many times
Not right now but it was.
What lol? why would it be 10 for 2, russia may not have many su57s but they (did) have a crap load of their worse planes.
still would be at a disadvantage but not as steep as that.
the TTD is 10.3 no? same as the CR1 MK2
He gave you a list of tanks NATO tanks for their BRs are subtantially better than russian tanks.
Russia claws it’s crap back with stupid amounts of lights and IFVs.
Certainly does lol, he’s had experience with every nation all the way to top tier, you’ve not.
Most folks who have actually played most nations tend to agree that the russian MBTs are piss and their strengths come in areas like lights,CAS and helis.
Okay and? if it did it wouldn’t be a balanced game lol.
Would you like a 2 day repair time on a leopard for taking damage? seeing as IRL right now it seems to take them forever to get fixed and back into battle?
Eh depends the BR man, lower BRs the yak9K is pretty solid, they also have a few decent little planes here and there in the su25s and such.
Because we are talking about the nations in game, not the fact they over perform compared to IRL or not.
IF we give all nato MBTs their full capabilites, which would be funny, there would be literally no point in playing the game.
Like back when tiger was first added and it completely annhilated lobbies.
Same.
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Abrams is average, in fact i don’t know if any other vehicle in this game could describe “average” better
Leopard 2A7 and Strv 122 are good ground vehicles, present in the GERMAN, ITALIAN and SWEDISH tech trees
EF = OK i guess
Rafale was an outlier, only found in the FRENCH tree
F-18A is eh i guess ? Same for F-15 GE
Important point : i’ve mentionned German, Italian, Swedish and French tree so far. 4 separate grinds, 4 separate line ups, no “NATO” tree
Good tanks, good against fixed wing CAS, that’s pretty much it
Meh tanks, meh AA, meh CAS. Everything is just meh
Good CAP, decent AA (when it works), rest is also meh
They have 1 good tank, 1 decent AA and that’s pretty much it ?
I mean quantity of vehicles you can spawn also matters you know ?
For the 200th time “NATO” is not a tech tree in this game
the US air force + US Navy alone basically has more stealth aircrafts running around than russia has fighters
And that’s not even factoring in european fleets, which when put together aren’t exactly small, so i’ll stay on my 5:1 ratio if you don’t mind
Not to mention, if we want to count russian tanks, today they don’t have much left running around, do they…
And I won’t even mention the navy side of things since it’s not in game, but i can already feel the bias (though i’ll admit the soviet cooked with their late cold war Subs designs)
fine, are in NATO nations, you do realise that NATO is the collective term for the non russian and chinese trees in game right?
ah yes, love using my US stealth fighters in game -.-.
What ? talking from before the war no they certainly did not.
they had about 500 F35s and what under 200 F22s, while russia had over 1000 fighters alone as far as reports went.
Now it’s of course different they’ve been in a war for nearly half a decade.
As I previously stated dumb dumb, you obviously wouldn’t implement them in war time xD
Or we gonna ignore the F35s being shot over you know where?
Navy very much is in the game and with the svesky whatever it is , there is clear bias for them.
which is bull crap that it’s sat for as long and a reason why I stopped playing naval in game.
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Cope, connect 2 f$$king dots
Japan + Israel are also not in nato, technically speaking
This way of approaching things is exactly the problem though :
NATO in game is 6 different trees, each that you have to grind, each with different line ups. Now if everyone spawns the absolute best of each tree composing a “NATO” team - assuming the match maker put you in the same team in the first place - then yes you can somewhat be on part (except in SPAA, Helis and IFV). That’s the thing though, why would i do that whan i can grind ONE tree with everything in it. No choice to make, no questions asked.
So where do we draw the line ? Because from where i’m standing, it looks like you want to cherrypick the exact moment that favors russian numbers most.
I’ve seen around 600+, you sure the 1000 doesn’t take transport aircrafts + heli into the mix ?
I mean the order of magnitude are slightly different, but that’s a detail i suppose…
Meant modern navy, but agree with the rest
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Yet the there is a serious argument that the Abrams is better than any of the top tier T-series. There is an element of playstyle and skill level involved, but the argument is definitely there.
Same goes for the Type 10, Leclerc and Merkava Mk.4s, but that argument is a bit weaker since it’s even more playstyle and skill level dependent.
For now at least lol.
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It is largely dependant on maps.
But most maps unfortunately favor quick reaction time and YOLO rushing corners, so it is what it is.
At this little game, a T-80 or even 90 are better equipped than an abrams, Leclerc, or even a Leopard.
You CAN absolutely camp some ridge lines, but most of the time these position do not cover enough of the map or, more crucially, cap points. So at the end of the day, you are forced to rush in town with tanks not designed for it.
The few maps that are not layered this way (maginot line comes to mind) are usually far less one sided, but they are not very common
I mean by the time it will be copy pasted everywhere, it probably won’t be the meta anymore tbh. It’s already less OP than before now with “notch while guide” AESA radars and Iron dome meta where more missile is better
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Like how recent Russian additions alongside with selective realism?
I don’t see you complaining about them.
I would gladly take 2 days of repair on my Leopard in exchange for turning every single Russian tank into space program upon the penetration.
Would you like to do the same?
No.
You guys taking 6 nations and turning into one then comparing to Russia to justify your points.
NATO itself isn’t a whole single unit which is why your and IhateCAS logic fails miserably.
.
So Su-30SM/SM2,Su-27SM, Su-34 itself and similiar Russian jets are bad?
Is that so? Lets compare it then:
Us Air Force:
- 345 F-15 in active service and 250 EX Eagle on its way
- 657 F-16C
- 140+ F-22 Raptor
- Over 400 F-35
Now lets look at Us Navy Air Force
- over 500 F-18
- 50+ F-35
Us Air Force itself is has larger fighter numbers than entire Russian Air Force, let alone including Navy.
Not to mention most Russian jets are inferior than Us models, only handful numbers are actually equal in terms of overall capabilities and I’m not even counting the loses on Ukraine conflict.
What the hell exactly are you talking about?
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You can outbrawl T-80s pretty effectively in fast reload tanks like the Merkava Mk.4/Leclerc/Abrams, but that is where the playstyle and skill level part comes in.
T-90s though, I hate getting anywhere close to the enemy when I play them. If I fight a T-90 and I get close up with them they are usually dead in the water. T-90s are only really scary at range.
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You CAN outbrawl them
and a T-80 CAN yolo rush a corner and hope for the lack of post pen damage to do the rest. I’ve seen some doing so. They knew I was there, fired in the lower plate or the front road wheel at an angle where an Abrams or Leopard would have no more turret basket. Sometimes it kills them in one shot, sometimes it just does nothing, sometimes it yellows the driver, sometimes it only takes the fuel tank out, and sometimes you’ll get the classic “driver-engine”. Occasionally it will kill them, but it’s like playing russian roulette, while disabling any other MBT peaking a corner this way is CONSISTANT
what can or can’t be done, i don’t really care, a Santal or Ozelot can destroy a light tank yolo rushing it for all i know, but it doesn’t tell the whole story
Merkava enters the chat
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Merkava is a huge profile
But i suspect the absence of issue with it is mainly that it’s rare to see one in the first place
If you peak the right way, they can “only” really kill your driver and engine, then they die.
And yes, because its rare people dont know where to shoot it.
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